Full Episode Download:
1- Open and Personal News Segment:
2- News Segment 1:
3- News Segment 2
4- News Segment 3
5- Interview Segment 2: Guest Jim Fleming – Author
6- DGU Segment:
7- Email and Show Close:
“An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”
Paul: Welcome中国体彩官方app to the Polite Society Podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Sunday, November 29, 2015. I’m Paul Lathrop.
Rob- I’m Rob Morse and President Obama said the world would be a fine place if only we had more gun regulations.
John: I’m John Richardson, we have a lot of news, and we’ll talk about being on a terrorists watch list.. with no way to get off.
Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in one of our defensive gun use stories, a Houston gun owner had to fight off eight criminals .. so climb aboard
Rob: strap in
John : and hang on!
Paul: episode 356 starts right now.
Show intro music.
Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)
Rob- I took a great training course in San Antonio, Texas taught by Ben Branam, Bob Mayne, Chaz Murray and Tracy Thronburg. Meeting them and John Edeen was absolutely worth it. This is the class you want after you can present your firearm from a holster. I wish every concealed carrier took a class like this. As a bonus, I saw bullets in flight.
I carried in Texas, and when I came 中国体彩官方app I found my Louisiana permit waiting for me. I’ve carried all week.
(Anyone want to know more about the class? point shooting, close contact defense, Sul position 360 scan, one handed shooting, shooting from unusual positions, and we got to shoot at night with a flashlight)
John – This week has been mostly about family. We had a wonderful Thanksgiving with my daughter and son-in-law. My granddaughter Olivia Grace is just a smiling, laughing, crawling bundle of joy.
In terms of gun-related stuff, there have been a few things. I had coffee yesterday morning with David Yamane who we’ve had on the show. He does academic research on Gun Culture 2.0 and blogs about it at his blog by the same name. I also have been taking advantage of too many of the Black Friday sales to finish getting parts for various projects at a good price. I made the mistake of checking Arfcom’s thread on good deals. Finally, I got my wife Barb’s Christmas present. All I’ll say in case she is listening is that it is black and purple and made by Mossberg.
Gary – What training do you have coming up?
Rob- Where is your Illinois meeting?
ISRA – Grassroots
You would find items of interest in your area, with guest speakers, legislative updates, open discussion and more. While the initial roll-out of the meetings might be similar, expect the grassroots group in your area to evolve to be more meaningful to the people in attendance.
Promo about upcoming training classes here.
2- News 1
1 Gun Salesman in Chief
() In the wake of the Colorado Planned Parenthood shooting, Obama immediately took to his teleprompters to demand tighter controls on military-style weapons. As if millions of gun owners must bear the whip for the actions of one demented man. We certainly mourn the deaths of the policeman and the other two persons; however, the proposed restrictions will not — can not — eliminate these tragedies as the president petulantly demanded. The cost of these restrictions will be far greater to our rights and freedoms than any possible gains.
Obama declared “enough is enough” in a speech just hours after the resolution of the incident. The clearly piqued Obama stated that we have to do the infamous “something” about the easy accessibility of weapons of war on our streets to people who have no business wielding them. The demonization of the commonly available firearm through the nonsensical labels of military-”style” weapons and “weapons of war” are as false as the demand to “do something.”
With these demands, Obama looks to to distract from his flailing presidency and provide the Democrat candidates with an issue that will ignite their somewhat disinterested Progressive base. But, we can assure our pen and phony president, this too will not pass.
Rob comment- Doesn’t Colorado already have magazine capacity limits and mandatory registration?.. yet those gun control measures failed.. again.
John – One thing that I learned in a class on public policy analysis was that often the best option is to do nothing.
2 Obama Wants Gun Control During His Last Months in Office
It seems that in the last months of the Obama administration, the . As his administration grinds toward a halt, the president is facing a foreign policy in collapse, a faltering economy, the unworkable mess of Obamacare, a reinvigorated opposition, and an agenda that has thankfully fallen far short of the fundamental change that he hoped to force on America.
In his last presidential year, finally free of the election constraints, Obama seems poised to abuse his executive powers. And the nation’s gun owners are clearly in his sights. Last week, Obama publicized his intention to elevate gun control to the in his final year. In the GQ magazine interview, Obama said he feels “looser” and more confident in his decisions and thus more willing to put his opinions above all others. Presidential advisor Valerie Jarrett says Obama is not a lame-duck and promises that “Really big things are coming.”
Cheered on by his minions in the media, Obama is pushing the blatantly fascistic Terror Watch List Gun Ban. This bill would put our basic rights at the mercy of secret, unaccountable, unchallengeable government bureaucracies – an obvious, immediate threat to our liberties. There’s little in the current proposals to prevent the president from declaring the NRA a terrorist organization and trying to disarm it’s 5 million members. The bill has little chance of passage, but it’s failure might provide the excuse Obama needs to wield his phone and pen once again. As could any mass murder event.
It seems this last year will be the most dangerous of the already disastrous Obama years. You know what you need to do: stay involved, talk to your family, friends and the people you meet, join a gun rights organization and contribute your money and time. But most of all, stay aware. These are dangerous times. And they’re getting more dangerous by the day.
John – If you are on any the gun control gun lists such as Brady, they are constantly pushing for Obama to do extra-legal efforts by using his executive powers.
Paul – We can get good things done while Obama is in office.
3 You’re on a list and you can’t get off
Following the president’s lead, many anti-gun politicians released press releases last week saying we should . There is at least one large problem with those proposals. We have no way to find out if we are on such a list, find out why we are on the list and find out how to exonerate ourselves from false charges placing us on the list. Now I’m sure you’re as trusting as I am and couldn’t imagine a politician putting gun owners or political rival on the list simply to disarm them.
Right. I thought so.
We have due process here in the United States.. at least until the president eliminates them with his phone and his pen. This raises another question. If these are KNOWN terrorists why are they walking around free in the first place rather than facing legal charges in court?
Paul- as you’d expect, the anti-gun politicians blamed the NRA for supporting terrorists when the NRA opposed this extra legal restriction on gun owners.
4 DC Police Chief Says Citizens Should Prepare For Active Shooters And Terrorist Attacks
This certainly got our attention: Noted hard-line progressive DC Police Chief Cathy Lanier is now saying that citizens should either run, hide or fight an active shooter or terrorist. She now holds that taking out the gunmen in a Paris-style attack is the “best option” for citizens”. But how? The same Chief Lanier has been active in denying DC residents the right to keep and carry firearms. She continues to defy the US Supreme Court and their pro Second Amendment rulings.
While we heartily agree with Chief Lanier’s advice not to cower, but to fight the terrorists; we wonder just what she expects the second class citizens of DC to fight with? She and her cohorts have effectively disarmed the DC populace — while, as Paris shows, not really doing anything to stop the terrorist from obtaining real weapons of war. Let’s call this a case of reality intruding on Lanier’s carefully constructed gun-free fantasies. Lanier’s sudden change in direction has us wondering: just what the heck does she know? And why isn’t she telling us?
Rob- There are only 51 licensed citizens in Washington, D.C.
Paul- what are we to fight them with harsh words?
5 Magazine Restrictions Don’t Reduce Mass Murder
Politicians waging war on our right of self-defense told us that magazine capacity restrictions would stop or greatly reduce mass murders. That claim always sounded silly to any gun owner. Now,
We saw capacity restrictions written into law in California, Colorado and New York after the murders at the Sandy Hook elementary school in Connecticut. Kleck researched both recent and past murders to see if the bans on large-capacity magazines made a difference in the number of casualties. Kleck assumed that a magazine ban would actually keep a mass murderer from using a high capacity magazine if the accessory was outlawed.
The FBI classifies mass murder as being four or more victims, but Kleck examined 88 mass shooting incidents in which more than six people were killed or wounded. He chose 6 victims as a threshold since even a simple revolver could kill six people without reloading and a small number of victims might not measure the claim of increased lethality with high capacity magazines. Even with this restrictive definition Kleck found that magazines holding over 10 rounds were used in only 21 of the 88 mass murder incidents. That means in 76 percent of the incidents, a large-capacity magazine ban would have made no difference in the number of victims.
Kleck then analyzed the 21 incidents in which a large-capacity magazine was used. In every case, the shooters carried either multiple guns or multiple magazines. Therefore, even without a high-capacity magazine, the shooters could easily switch guns or magazines.
Kleck found out that the rate of fire in mass shooting was so slow that having to change guns or magazines did not reduce the number of casualties.
Mass murderers want to kill a lot of people. Their desire leads to a large number of casualties until police arrive. The choice of a large-capacity magazine may reflect the murderer’s desire, but it does not cause more deaths.
Gary- This makes so much sense to me. The police won’t arrive for 10 minutes, and it only takes me a second to reload. Of course magazine capacity doesn’t change the number of victims.
John – The key to these mass murders was the desire to kill many people. Not the tool.
3- News 2
1 It must be nice to be above the law at taxpayer expense
Gavin Newsom is the Lieutenant Governor of California, and the Democrat heir apparent to become governor in 2018. That takes money, and Newsom knows right where to turn for campaign contributions. Newsom to outlaw all ammunition magazines that hold more than 10 rounds. The initiative would also require a background check to buy ammunition. This in turn, would require that all stores that sell ammunition would have to become Federal Firearms Licensees. This is another tax on honest gun owners in California.
We reported on the Chicago study that showed criminals never get their guns at gun shows and gun stores, so criminals never go through a background check. Criminals get their guns illegally, so criminals would simply get their ammunition the same way. None of those facts matter if the low-information California voter only listens the the headlines in the news.
If that wasn’t enough to make your blood boil, Newsom has that costs the taxpayers tens of millions of dollars a year. Guns for me, but not for you little people.
Rob- Requires an instant background check, but might use a California background check system.
I don’t think the policemen who work on Newsom’s security detail are
John – I wonder if Newsom wants to have a 10 day waiting period for ammo as well.
2 Of course they want guns on base
The Rasmussen organization took a poll of almost 2 thousand service men. By a margin of over five to one, the servicemen The support was strong in every service, in the reserve, and among retired military. There is a rider on the current defense authorization act that allows servicemen to carry concealed. President Obama even said he would sign it once the legislation makes its way to his desk.
3 Only conservatives can be racist at University of Texas
Two Texas professors said that the right to bear arms on campus wasn’t about self-defense. The UT profs claimed the desire to be armed was about since they were racists and theists. That claim was answered rather well.
A female hispanic economics student from Texas Christian University said In this case, it is the choice not to be raped. Quote, “feminists are looking at the aftermath of rape but are neglecting to look at ways to enable women to stop it from happening in the first place. How can feminists advocate for protection of their uteruses but condemn the right to protect their whole bodies? Women should be fighting for more than just their reproductive systems.” Close quote.
A black female graduate student answered the charges also. She said, Quote “As a black woman and a graduate student at UT-Dallas, I have no interest in displaying white male power to slaves, women, African-Americans, or anyone else, and I’m certainly not interested in pushing back against the Civil Rights Movement or promoting an ideology of white racism. I am, however, interested in being able to defend myself should the need arise. Campus carry isn’t about arming dangerous bigots;” close quote.
Well said. The university has to develop a plan to allow concealed carry on campus by next summer.
4 We had to destroy his gun safe in order to save it
Celebrity and professional poker player Dan Bilzerian was away when his 中国体彩官方app was robbed in September. A security alarm and a caretaker at his Hollywood 中国体彩官方app stopped thieves from taking Bilzerian’s guns. Bilzerian had most of his firearms locked securely in his gun vault. That stopped the thieves, but the vault didn’t stop the Los Angeles Police. The police broke into the vault, took nine handguns, but left valuable long guns behind. The “for the owner’s protection”. It took eight weeks for a lawyer to get Bilzerian’s guns back, but the police kept the magazines and the ammunition.
Attorney Joseph Silvoso from the law firm of Michel & Associates, said he has seen numerous incidents in which police responded to a crime scene, and then confiscated guns without a warrant.
Another Los Angeles gun owner had previously filed a 4.8 million dollar lawsuit against the LA PD for a similar invasion.. and destruction of his firearms collection.
Paul- no, officer, you can not search for my firearms. You can not have them, secure them or touch them without a warrant.
Gary- I read the entire article in the Washington Times.. and they do not like the Los Angeles Police Department.
Comment from Charlie Foxtrot- From personal observation: The LAPD, aka Lap Dogs, is a highly politicized organization. Like their political masters, the department is rabidly anti-gun. They’re also more interested in writing speeding tickets and harassing jaywalkers than confronting the drug gangs that own the city’s underside. There are a tremendous amount of good cops wearing the LAPD Blue – but the organization’s leaders are hopelessly, aggressively politically correct.
5 Michigan FINALLY Becomes Shall Issue
The state of Michigan will finally close down its three-member county gun boards on Tuesday. These boards will no longer issue, deny, revoke or suspend firearms licenses. Now, county clerks will issue or deny a license after the state police conduct a background check. An initial license will have to be issued or disqualified within 45 days of fingerprints being taken instead of within 45 days of a licensing board getting a fingerprint analysis from the state police. A renewal must be issued or denied within 30 days instead of the current 60-day deadline.
This is another step toward , in which a permit has to be issued as long as an applicant has taken a gun safety course, has no felony convictions and meets other requirements such as not being subject to a protection order.
4- News 3
1 Signs Come and Signs Go at Houston Zoo
The Houston Zoo put its no-guns allowed signs up again. The signs came down three months ago after the zoo was threatened with a lawsuit. That is when Texas Law Shield sent a demand letter to the Houston Zoo because the zoo sits on city property even though the zoo is privately owned.
Now, and does not have to comply with Texas concealed carry laws. A spokesman for Texas law shield said the zoo’s argument is flimsy because there is no educational curriculum, academic accreditation, or the ability to obtain an academic degree at the zoo. Citizens may file complaints about unlawful gun restrictions with the Texas attorney general’s office. Fines run up to $10,000 per day.
Rob- A teacher takes a second job and the restaurant becomes an educational institution?
2 Voices of Reason in the United States
Some responsible broadcasters understand the purpose of armed citizens. You and I will always be the first responders until the government gets there. Broadcaster John Stossel pointed out that there were 1500 people at the music concert in France where they were attacked by muslim terrorists. There were thousands at the soccer stadium where they were attacked. The police unit didn’t come for more than a half hour. The terrorists had time to kill, reload and kill again. They killed their victims at point blank range. Stossel asks “If a few people in the theater were armed, might they have killed the killers?”
We’ll never know. France’s guns laws say you may not carry a gun unless police certify that you are “exposed to exceptional risks of harm” to your life. Few people even bother to apply. That bureaucratic arrogance isn’t confined to France. Here in the United States, that is the same way we treat the citizens of New York City, Los Angeles, San Diego, San Jose, San Francisco, Baltimore and Washington, DC.
John – regardless of being armed -1500 people vs. 3 with guns. Yes some would be killed but the terrorists could have been overwhelmed.
Paul – more about the article. Stossel himself has been denied a NYC gun permit.
Rob- Someone might be hurt by self defense? Reporters and academics want perfect solutions
3 There is more to Europe than Paris and Brussels
We saw an article from the website that made a clear distinction between the European Union and the Czech Republic. This distinction became stronger after the European Union proposed more gun laws following the muslim attack in Paris. It might surprise you to know the Czech Republic has shall issue gun laws. They semi-automatic handguns and long guns. The Czech republic also has an unusually low rate of violent crime. What sounds absolutely familiar is that the pro-gun website asked Czech gun owners to write their representatives to resist more gun bans from the European Union.
Does that sound familiar?
Rob- The Czechs have some odd ammunition restrictions, but the also started a . Good for them.
John – The Czechs also has a good firearms industry. CZ makes some excellent firearms.
4- Wisconsin allows automatic knives
A Wisconsin man was arrested for possession of a switchblade knife. The Wisconsin court ruled that
First, the State argued that the knife ban serves an important governmental objective by protecting the public from the danger of potentially lethal surprise attacks posed by individuals using switchblade knives. However, the State cites no evidence to establish that this danger actually exists, particularly since the wisconsin man was arrested for possession of a knife in his own 中国体彩官方app.
The court found-
-That knives are no more lethal than handguns.
-That there should not be different levels of legal protection for different types of arms that all fall under the Second Amendment based on their popularity.
-That switchblades have certain advantages over guns and over other knives for some people. For example, an automatic knife is safer than a gun or a fixed blade knife and can be just as effective. For safety reasons people with children may not want guns around the house. People with limited financial resources who may not be able to afford a proper gun likely would be able to afford an effective $10 automatic knife.
-That for people who are excluded from lawful gun ownership, an automatic knife may be the most effective arm available.
-That whether one applies intermediate scrutiny or strict scrutiny to the switchblade ban, the ban fails such scrutiny, at least as applied to 中国体彩官方app possession.
Rob comment- this implies that my concealed carry permit should allow me to carry a knife as well, but Wisconsin makes it illegal to carry
John- Nappen’s new book on knife laws?
Gary – Knife Rights – Illinois Bill Would Allow Switchblades with CCW License – CALL or WRITE TODAY!
5 Surge in concealed carry applications after paris attacks
The news media likes to frighten us. They told us that bad people use guns. This probably wasn’t the outcome the media intended, but a record number of us decided we want a gun since the world can be a dangerous place. There was a all across the United States after the terrorist murders in Paris. The application rate has
Gary, have you seen an increase in students for your Illinois concealed carry classes?
Paul- We’re coming up to a break, but I want to say something about the news. We try to bring you the highlights each week, but there are many stories we can’t fit into the podcast because there is so much to cover. We do our best and apologize if we left out a story that is important to you.
Who has the gun quote? How about you, (Gary)
We are advised NOT to judge all Muslims by the actions of a few million fanatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few dozen lunatics. Funny how that works. Modified from the original Facebook
Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest Jim Flemming.
5- Interview 1- Lawyer Jim Fleming, author of “Aftermath – Lessons in Self-Defense”
What to expect after shooting stops
Duty to rescue
Every shooting is a crime scene
Use your phone to document bystanders
Our first four DGUs are all about a single person surviving the assault of multiple criminals — with the essential help of their own firearm.
1-eight against one in Houston
Two carloads of thugs stopped in front of a 中国体彩官方app in Houston, Texas. Six to eight men piled out of the cars and forced their way into a nearby 中国体彩官方app. A neighbor was walking down the sidewalk when the 中国体彩官方app invasion happened. The neighbor walked towards the 中国体彩官方app, and one of the thugs drew his gun. The neighbor was carrying concealed and The other men left the scene and abandoned one of the cars. The wounded robber died at the scene. The abandoned getaway car was stolen. The one person inside the 中国体彩官方app at the time of the robbery was not injured.
Rob- This gun owner must have liked his neighbors..disparity of force
..evening the odds
Paul – is your six shot revolver enough?
Gary – My 8 shot 1911 wasn’t enough so I bought a 15 shot 1911
2-Four Against One in San Antonio
Four teenagers were in the process of turning their lives around when they were interrupted by a 中国体彩官方appowner. Unfortunately, they were in the 中国体彩官方app of the owner — and the Two of the robbers were arrested and charged with burglary. A third, sporting a graze wound to the chest, was remanded to juvenile detention. The fourth, a 19-year-old woman, died after pulling out a window air-conditioner and confronting the 中国体彩官方appowner. Lest you shed too many tears, an open bag was found next to her with a gun, some burglary tools and a checkbook belonging to the 中国体彩官方appowner’s wife. Police said she also had an opened knife on the floor next to her.
Police arrested the surviving teens hiding in a house a block away. They also found stolen items from the crime scene. “This is not the first time they tried to rob them,” police said. The two adult burglars remain in jail on bonds totally $20,000 each. This bail seems absurdly low for what may well become felony murder charges with the justifiable death of their female accomplice. The 中国体彩官方appowner is not expected to face charges. Thankfully, the 中国体彩官方appowner and his three children are OK, and trying to get over what happened.
3-Three Against One in Philly
A was forced to defend his life against three 中国体彩官方app invaders. Final Score: 中国体彩官方appowner: 2 — Robbers 0. Three masked males tried to rob a 中国体彩官方appowner early in the evening, but a firearm allowed him to even the odds. The 中国体彩官方appowner shot the 18-year-old multiple times in the chest and right side. His 15-year-old accomplice suffered a shot to the finger. The third suspect was not injured. Both the injured males were rushed by private auto to the hospital where they are listed in stable condition.
Comment: Use enough gun.
4-Two against one in Jacksonville, Florida
A jewelry store owner in Jacksonville, Florida was closing up shop. He was locking his back door when two masked men tried to force their way in at gun point. The three men fought and the store owner was shot in the arm. The store owner then staggered to the front of the store and collapsed. A security guard from a nearby grocery store applied a tourniquet and called police. The wounded thief was dumped at a nearby hospital and died a few hours later.
Rob- comment- wear your gun
Gary – stay in the fight
Paul – first aid can save a life
5-One on one in Houston
A woman in her mid 30s parked her car at a Houston, Texas gas station. It was about 6pm and she was still sitting in the driver’s seat when a man pulled open the passenger side door and and climbed in. The man then pulled a knife and demanded her money. The female driver promised the thief her wallet. She reached into her purse and pulled out her gun. The thief ran from the gas station and collapsed a quarter mile away. Police found the thief and evacuated him by helicopter due to severe loss of blood. He is now listed in stable condition at Texas Medical Center, and is being charged with aggravated robbery. The driver was licensed to carry a concealed weapon and police said the shooting appears to be self-defense.
6-Utility Worker Kills Armed Thug
We’ve another from the annals of Crazy Town, also known at North St Louis. Several utility workers were laboring on water lines when they were approached by an armed man. The robber took the wallets of two workers at gunpoint. He then demanded that the third get his belongings from the work truck. Fortunately, the victim had stored a handgun in the truck and he used it to defend his life and shoot the robber in the chest. Police said the 17-year-old criminal died at the scene.
The St. Louis County Police Department’s Bureau of Crimes Against Persons is investigating the incident as an act of self-defense and the robbery victim is not expected to be charged.
We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com Please take a minute and share them with a friend.
7- E-mail, blog notes, and show close
Listener e-mail discussion
This week’s email is from Rustie (that’s the way he spells it)
Longtime listener here. I salute you for all the hard work you do to put the podcast up, even while driving all over America. I figure there must be at least three Pauls, to get all this done.
I heard you say that you are having back problems and will transition out of driving truck. As a longtime back problem sufferer, may I suggest that you transition sooner than later. It may not get better at some point, and that will color the rest of your life’s plans and activities. Even driving taxi or delivery may not be good idea.
You are a natural “radio” speaker and perhaps you can find work in this line.
Thanks again to all the participants at Polite Society. You are a great team and a valuable resource to the firearms community.
Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts you want to mention?
Rob- First the broadcast media hid the news of armed self-defense. We are seeing gun ownership and concealed carry grow despite that distortion from the media. Next, the anti-rights bigots lied about us. My article about those distortions and fabrications is titled “Lies the Gun-Prohibitionists Told Me”. My writing is up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland and on my blog
John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money
John- Over the last two weeks, the New York Daily News has been pushing to have those on the FBI’s Terrorist Screening Database aka the no-fly list added to the list of prohibited persons. They have used very incendiary front pages attacking the NRA with headlines like “ and . I wrote about both of these front pages and have pointed out that any “suspected” person still has to get FBI approval before buying a firearm. The criteria for getting on the list is weak and the ability to get off is hard. What the Daily News and those in the gun prohibitionist community are doing is urging Congress to ignore the Constitution and especially the Fourth Amendment.
That and more is at
We would like to thank Charlie Foxtrot for writing up show notes for us. Even though you don’t hear him on the air he is certainly part of what you do hear. Look at his blog at
Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. I’d like to thank Jim Fleming for joining us today. co-hosts, will you be with us next time? I’m looking forward to it. Until the next time…
Rob: stay safe,
Gary: be aware,
John: and we’ll see you down the road.
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