Episode 412 – Grace Thames

Full Episode Download:

1- Open and Personal News Segment

2- News Segment 1

3- Interview Segment 1: Guest Grace Thames

4- DGU Segment:

5- Email and Show Close:

1- Introduction

Paul: Welcome中国体彩官方app to the Polite Society Podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Friday June 23rd 2017, I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we will talk with Grace Thames about hand to hand self-defense.

Rachel: I’m Rachel Malone, and we’ll hear the story of a food-throwing delivery driver.

Bill: I’m Bill from the Firearms Chat Podcast and Paul and the gang asked me to join them for the show today…so climb aboard

Rachel: strap in

Rob : and hang on!

Paul: episode 412 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.


Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)


Rob- I carried in the sun and rain, and we’ve had a lot of both. The exception was when I went to a large industrial firm in Texas. They were a gun free zone. I produced two new episodes of Self-Defense Gun Stories. I started reading David Yamane’s article-


Rachel, don’t tell us what changed. Tell us if anything stayed the same in your world?


Rachel – …..I live in a different world now


Bill- I did a women’s roundtable show last night




Promo about upcoming training classes here.



2- News 1


Mortgage to Keep and Bear Arms

On June 16 2017, U.S. District Judge Amy Berman Jackson to grant $9,775.65 in attorney’s fees and costs incurred by Gregory Ledet, a resident of Ohio. In 1997, Ledet committed the crime in Louisiana of less than $100 misdemeanor theft for which he received a six-month suspended sentence in lieu of 18 months probation. He should not have been denied his second amendment rights. Therefore, he fought the federal government over a stagnant background check appeal on a gun purchase. One can lose their gun rights according to if the person is found guilty of non-domestic violence-related state misdemeanor punishable by over two years in prison. Ledet’s attorney, Stephen D. Stamboulieh “Why should an erroneously denied individual be on the hook for thousands of dollars to fix the government’s mistake? Good question. But, until Congress steps in, that’s the way it is.”


Kansans Denied the second amendment.

The Kansas Taxpayers are coerced to fund hospitals, but with this they are denied the ability to defend themselves when employed, visiting or being treated at these facilities. Employees are not allowed to exercise their second amendment rights in their own vehicles parked on the property. After bill passed on June 1st, the governor had 10 days to sign or veto the bill. Since he has done nothing, the bill will become law without his signature. Kobach attempted working with The Association and the Kansas State Rifle Association to come to a compromise with state hospitals and KU Med. KU Med walked away from the negotiating table, therefore Tax funded Medical Facilities will not follow the legislation to allow concealed carry nor will they pay for additional security. The state funded properties will turn into gun-free zones without by July 1.


Paul – so much for constitutional carry.

National Reciprocity or bust

is high on the list for the Republican agenda, but the Democrats and the dominant media have been in cahoots to undermine it since Donald Trump took office. It appears many House Republicans are jumping on the bandwagon. The Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act (H.R. 38) now boasts the support of 200 members! Perhaps this will provide the impetus to get the bill moving out of committee; it has been languishing there since January 12.


simply says, “A person licensed to carry in their 中国体彩官方app state may carry in any other state that allows concealed carry.” Although every state allows some form of concealed carry, New Jersey, Maryland, New York, California and Hawaii, make it extremely difficult to go through the process of obtaining a permit. Politicians from those states are not about to stand by quietly as reciprocity bill passes.


In the wake of the Alexandria, Virginia shooting of Rep. Scalise and others, Georgia Congressman Barry Loudermilk proposed another form of reciprocity. He proposed measures whereby members of Congress licensed in their 中国体彩官方app states may carry while they are in the nation’s capital. Of course, Sen. Charles Schumer (D-NY) is one of the anti-rights activists vehemently opposing the idea. Certainly there will be no restrictions on his personal security detail. But his second amendment opposition is aggressively reminding the Senator who is in charge on Capitol Hill. Brian Babin of Texas proposed legislation similar to Loudermilk’s.


It is typical that public shootings result in calls for the retraction of rights. This is one situation where such an event may actually spur action to take some of these rights back. The number of supporters for National Reciprocity as well as Rep. Loudermilk’s proposal may actually move the bill forward. Do you find it interesting that members of Congress seem content to follow the status quo when you and I are being overrun by violence? Whether the subject is health insurance or concealed carry, the ruling class believes in two sets of rules: theirs and ours.


Rob- These are complimentary bills. We need both.



California is restricting publicly funded travel to eight (8) states due to laws that California leaders view as discriminatory against gay and transgender people.


The eight states are Alabama, Kansas, Kentucky, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee and Texas.


California Attorney Xavier Becerra, along with representatives from ACLU North California & Equality California, announced the new states at a Thursday press conference.


California’s law gained attention after North Carolina enacted its so-called “bathroom bill”, which requires that people using bathrooms in public buildings choose the restroom that corresponds to the gender at birth. California voted last year to restrict state-funded travel to states with laws that allow businesses to deny services to members of the LGBT community.


Texas Gov. Greg Abbott recently signed a law with a provision that critics are interpreting as permitting adoption agencies to deny services to gay families.


Alabama and South Dakota were added because of similar adoption-related laws. The California DOJ says Kentucky’s Senate Bill 17 allows student-run organizations to discriminate against classmates.


The California law includes exemptions for law enforcement officers, tax auditors and training events that are required for grants.


Gun Quotes- The greater the number of laws and enactments, the more thieves and robbers there will be. Lao Tzu


Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest, Grace Thames.



3- Interview 1


4- Interview 2


5- DGUs (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.


Sponsored by firearms policy coalition

Jeff Street



A man broke into an Albuquerque 中国体彩官方app on Sunday, triggering the security system that notified the 中国体彩官方appowner on his phone.

Micah Benson watched the man roam through his 中国体彩官方app, grab a beer, try on a motorcycle jacket and turn on the TV.

That’s when Benson called his neighbor for help. Sandra Vestel has a background in the military and surveillance and jumped into action.

She told reporters QUOTE “I went into our garage, my husband and I, and we got two pistols,” END QUOTE.

They met Benson in the street and used their cars to block the street to prevent a getaway in a vehicle. Vestel handed Benson a gun and that’s when posse of six armed neighbors flooded into the 中国体彩官方app and confronted the man.

Vestel stated that she and the 中国体彩官方appowner entered the 中国体彩官方app with two of the loaded weapons. The 中国体彩官方appowner announced himself to the perpetrator saying, QUOTE “I have a loaded weapon, get down on your hands and knees,’” END QUOTE.

According to police, the intruder shouted “DON’T SHOOT!”

Surrender? Not enough for this bunch neighborhood watch. They duct taped the suspect and placed him on the driveway AFTER beginning to strip search him to make sure he didn’t have any weapons or needles. They even took away his beer that he had helped himself to.

32-year-old Mark Thompson was transferred to a local hospital and was later charged with residential burglary. Thompson remains in police custody.


Paul – We are not the police and should not be clearing houses especially a house that is only occupied by a bad guy


Rob- This is wrong, but cool.



Delivery is Dangerous

Getting food delivered to your 中国体彩官方app can be a great time saver for yourself but for a driver, it can be a dangerous job. A Jacksonville Florida Chinese food delivery driver is thankful that he practiced POGO. 3 teen thugs thought they would make a fast buck this week by robbing the driver.

The three called in an order and had it delivered to a vacant 中国体彩官方app on the west side of town. The three had removed the For Sale sign from in front of the house. When the driver arrived at the address, he was held at gunpoint and told to get inside. The driver threw the food at one of the thugs then pulled his Glock. Four or five shots had one of the thugs down and two on the run.

The intended victim only had $200 with him. The incident left the neighborhood concerned due to the number of children living there.

The drivers statements indicated that he did not get his support hand up as he defended himself. This would tend to indicate that he had trained one handed at some point in the past.

Another take away from this story is the tactic used by the driver to give himself time to draw his weapon. He threw the food at one of his aggressors which gave him the opportunity to draw his Glock. If you are in a similar situation, you can toss your wallet or valuables at the thug or on the ground. It may be just the distraction you need to draw and be the first to pull the trigger.


Paul- Good on the driver for using the food as a distraction

Rob- Don’t depend on mercy from the merciless. Tactical patience. You have the right to defend yourself. WHEN you do so..is up to you.

Bill- I can add something…

Jeff- Train to discard or retain carried items


Democrat or Republican

Since 1909, the Democrats and the Republicans in House of Representatives along with select Senators have been playing a charity baseball game. The game has been played for years at the various professional fields in the DC area. The game was so popular not only with the players but also the public that the game was broadcast on radio for many years. The players take the game seriously and each year spend many hours prior to the day’s work in the House and Senate at the practice field in Virginia taking batting practice and fielding ground balls.

On June 14th, the Republican players were on a field in Alexandria VA. James Hodgkinson, 66, of Belleville IL was also at the field that morning but he wasn’t much interested in baseball. The rhetoric and vitriol of the last few years had turned Hodgkinson into a anti-Republican liberal who had actively campaigned for Bernie Sanders in the Democrat primaries. His Facebook page was full of hate against the Republicans. Hodgkinson had purchased a 7.62 x 39 caliber SKS rifle and a 9mm handgun. That morning he had a pocket full of clips and was intent on eliminating some Republican members of Congress.

Among the players taking BP and fielding practice that morning included Senators Jeff Flake and Rand Paul, and Representatives Steve Scalise, Jeff Duncan, Mo Brooks, Joe Barton, MIke Bishop, Ron Desantis and Brad Wenstrup to name a few and various aides and a lobbyist or two.

As Hodgkinson took aim with his SKS along the 3rd base line, Republican Whip Steve Scalise was at his position near second base fielding balls. As the first shots range out shortly after 7 AM, Rep Scalise was shot in the hip. At the same time, all the others on the field dove for cover. The only real cover was the 1st Base dugout. Rep Barton injured his ankle diving into the dugout. His young son was there and the stuffed him up under the bench to hide him. Barton’s Aide, Zach Barth was shot through the calf and after hugging the ground finally decided to make a run for the dugout as well. Sustaining injuries as severe as Scalise’s was lobbyist Matt Mika.

As Majority Whip, Rep Scalise is the 3rd ranking Republican in the house. As such, he is assigned a security detail by the Capitol Hill Police. This morning the detail consisted of Officers David Bailey and Crystal Griner. Both Bailey and Griner were hit by Hodgkinson. Both returned fire. Estimates of the number of shots were anywhere from 50 to 100. In the end, Officer Bailey was able to eliminate the threat. Hodgkinson suffered fatal gunshot wounds.

Senator Flake and Rep Wenstrup both ran immediately after the shooting stopped to Scalise who had dragged himself to into the outfield away from the direction of the shots. They found the entry wound and looked for an exit wound. Scalise was thirsty and they got him water. Scalise was in good care, Wenstrup is a surgeon and a colonel in the Army Reserve and had served 1 tour in Iraq. He later said that it was like being back in Iraq except he wasn’t armed.

Scalise, Mika and the shooter were life flighted out. Hodgkinson died at the hospital. Mika and Scalise have undergone multiple surgeries and are now out of ICU and Scalise is in good condition and MIka in fair. Bailey, Griner, Barton and Barth were all treated and released from area hospitals.

The next night the Congressional Baseball Game went on as planned. Throwing out the first pitch was one of the heroes, Officer David Bailey. The Democrats defeated the Republicans 11-6.

The shooting has spurred the introduction of legislation to allow reciprocity for members of Congress in who are licensed to carry at 中国体彩官方app or to get similar licensing through the Capital Hill Police. Of course, why does Congress need special legislation when the existing bill for National Reciprocity would do the same thing.


Jeff- these guys and the rest of us would be better served if they had a USPSA competition instead of a baseball game. I doubt any of the senators had an IFAK.

Rob- Col David Grossman calls a ball field a willful and deliberate waste of a good shooting range. The politicians were disarmed because they worked in a gun free zone. So are we. So are the political staff.


Tennessee Armed Citizens capture Escaped Georgia Inmates

Also last Tuesday, Donnie Rowe and Ricky Dubose were with 31 other inmates being transported on board a corrections bus in Putnam County GA. At some point they were able to get out of the locked rear section and overpowered the two corrections officers. After stopping the bus, they proceeded to murder the two officers with their own weapons.

The two then carjacked a Honda Civic from a man who pulled up behind the bus. They proceeded north and robbed a 中国体彩官方app in Madison GA taking food, clothes and valuables and leaving their prison uniforms behind. They then stole a Ford Pickup and continued their run to the north.

In Shelbyville TN, the two held an elderly couple hostage and later fled in their car. The police had been alerted to their presence and a chase ensued. The inmates crashed the stolen car and fled on foot. In the process of fleeing, there were shots exchanged with the police.

Nearby, a 中国体彩官方appowner, Patrick Hale, had gotten calls that the two were in the area and to be alert. He loaded his weapons to prepare. A few minutes later he spotted the two crossing a fence some 300 yards from his 中国体彩官方app. He then called 911 at this point. At that point he started to leave with his young daughter. As they were pulling down the driveway, Rowe and Dubose took off their shirts and waved them at the 中国体彩官方appowner. The two fugitives then surrendered and laid face down on the driveway. Hale was armed but stated that he never pulled his weapon. 3 minutes later, 45 police officers arrived to take the two into custody.

There had been several conflicting reports about this last day. It was stated that the two got in a gunfight with their pursuers but the two corrections officers guns were retrieved from the crashed vehicle. It was also reported that Hale had drawn on the two but Hale stated he never drew his weapon. The old saying of the Fog of War I guess applies here.


Paul I LOVE the fact that the guy was getting out of there. Priorities are right when he got his kids out


Rob- “I was loading all my guns and praying.”


We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com Please take a minute and share them with a friend.



6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close


Listener e-mail discussion


Voice mail

From Carl- Do we have barbeque guns?

Bill- Taurus Judge

Rob- I know we wear jeans and work gear during the weekday. I’d upgrade my clothes when I’m visiting a friend. I’d also wear my 1911 in basic black.

Rachel- is it ever not grilling season? G19 is my all-purpose gun




Text message

Morning PS Crew,

With so many new gun owners I understand that some people may not be able to afford to take a training class. I know nothing can compare to getting into a class but for those that can’t afford it annually how do you all feel about training videos? Other than Rob Pincus who else would you recommend?






Rob- A video is a supplement, not a substitute for coaching. There is a difference between instruction, training, and coaching. The difference is really important. I’d be careful watching a video. You may emphasize the the wrong aspects of the exercise. A trainer can show you what you should do..and separate the important from the inconsequential.

Videos can’t look at you and show you where you’re making mistakes.


Rachel- To piggyback on what Rob said: if you are truly motivated to learn to be an excellent shooter, you can do so without spending much money. Obviously, big-name courses (and a lot of little-known-name courses) are amazing experiences. But if you can’t afford them, save your pennies, take a basic class that’s well-recommended by local trainers *and civilians* (not big-name, but quality)……and then actually apply *everything* you were taught. During the class, take notes, ask questions, ask more questions, understand everything, work your brain a thousand times harder than you ever thought you could. Then come 中国体彩官方app and drill yourself. Be your own teacher. You’ll be a better shooter than most people who take many big-name classes. Also, train with others who are good at things you’re not. Don’t have money for ammo? Dry-fire. Ask for a 2-hour private lesson with someone – and ask them questions and ask them for 中国体彩官方appwork.

Rob- Even a one-day course is more than you can learn in a day. You’re not serious about training if you don’t take notes. The notes will re-teach you the parts you saw, but didn’t learn.


Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts you want to mention?


Rob- I want our listeners to read my article Should we intervene if we see someone else being assaulted? How do we know they are not armed? Why did they ignore the ability to protect themselves. If you want to be gun free, should I go against your wishes? That and more are up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland and on my blog


Paul- Bill, what is going on over at your podcast Firearms Chat?


Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. I’d like to thank Grace Thames for joining us today. So for Charlie Foxtrot, Jae, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Craig, and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)


Rob: Until the next time…

Bill: stay safe,

Rachel: be aware,

Susan: and we’ll see you down the road.


(after show close) How could we have made this episode better?


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