Full Episode Download:
1- Open and Personal News Segment
2- Training and Discussion segment
3- News Segment 1
4- Interview Segment 1: Sean Maloney
5- Interview Segment 2: Laura Carno
6- DGU Segment:
7- Email and Show Close:
Paul: Welcome中国体彩官方app to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Sunday, May 14, 2017. I’m Paul Lathrop.
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we will talk with Laura Carno about training school staff in Colorado to be first responders.
John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk with Sean Maloney from second call defense.
Rachel: I’m Rachel Malone, and in one of our DGU’s we’ll hear how a Houston man successfully defended himself against 3 attackers
Rob: So climb aboard,
Rachel: strap in,
John : and hang on!
Paul: episode 409 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.
Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)
Rob- Carried every day. Did some dry practice with a SIRT pistol. New ammo arrived for a training class. I’ve also been thinking about how we train and how we teach. We’ll talk about that in our e-mail segment. I’ve also been thinking about Gary’s mom, but I haven’t written that article yet. I also put out a new episode of
John – I want to apologize to our listeners for missing our last show. I had just a horrible internet connection. Listening to the others was like being in some hallucinogenic Techo event. Now to current events. I’m a bit sore as we have been cleaning out what had been my Mom’s house as – ta da – I have a buyer for it. My Mom passed away 9 years ago so it’s time! I am still finding treasures including a signed promotion letter to my Mom from the FBI’s J. Edgar Hoover. As to gun news, I was pocket carrying my Ruger LCP II the whole time. It’s very convenient.
Bought a gun….from John
Saw some political friends in a non-political setting….it was good
Working on a knife bill…..since everything else I cared about is dead
Mostly doing music work
Paul/Susan Range day on Saturday S&W Sigma
Bob and Ben
Promo about upcoming training classes here.
(June 9-11 2017). MAG-30. Florence, TX
(June 24, 25th 2017). Beyond Concealed Carry Enhanced. 9am -5pm both days. Richmond, IL
(July 8, 2017) Defensive Rifle Skills for the Armed Citizen
(August 10-13, 2017). MAG-40. Sioux Falls, SD
(August 26 & 27, 2017). Beyond Concealed Carry Enhanced. Sioux Falls, SD
(Saturday, February 3, 2018) Law of Self Defense LEVEL 1 Class: South Dakota
(Saturday, February 4, 2018) Law of Self Defense LEVEL 2 Class: South Dakota
John – Promo for PSP patches – send orders email@example.com. $10 for 1, $18 for 2 PPD.
Bob Owens Suicide- Suicide is typically a result of depression. Most of us never consider if we should kill ourselves. We don’t ask if we should mark or cut ourselves. We don’t ask because the question never occurs to us. If you have asked yourself these questions, then please go get help. What you’re doing in asking that question isn’t normal. It isn’t healthy. You are suffering from an illness. You’re depressed. It is a disease, not a character flaw. You don’t need sympathy or to think happy thoughts or take a 中国体彩官方appopathic remedy. You need a doctor. You need help now.
One of the largest contributors to periods of depression is lack of sleep. So take a driven individual working on an important project. They work too hard. Drink lots of coffee. Sleep too little, and then start a downward spiral of sleep deprivation and depression.
National Suicide Prevention Lifeline 1-800-273-8255
Bob Owens Family & College Fund
2- News 1
San Francisco insanity
In typical California fashion, the City of San Francisco uses every measure at its disposal to limit the freedoms of law abiding citizens. In a recent Breitbart article, AWR Hawkins exposed the folly of the elitist politicians who perpetually occupy City Hall.
In 2013 the city enacted a high capacity unquote magazine ban. At the time, Larry Barsetti of the police union was quoted as saying, “All you’re doing is impacting honest law-abiding citizens of San Francisco; the bad guys aren’t going to obey this law; they’re not supposed to be carrying in the first place.”
Recently published crime statistics appear to support Mr. Barsetti’s prediction. Numerous improvements were noted in crime rates within the city. Crimes against property fell by a staggering 11 percent from 2015 to 2016. Incidents of reported thefts, arson, vehicle theft and burglaries also decreased on a year-by-year basis.
Crimes in which firearms were involved, however, exploded during the same time period. The murder rate increased by 15 percent and gunshot victims increased by 27 percent! Surely the well-meaning public servants of The City by the Bay have not yet concocted the perfect mixture of rights restrictions to serve their stated purpose.
Although we cannot, at this time, attribute any of this increase directly to magazine restrictions, there is a comparison that can be made. A city on the other side of the country中国体彩官方app, Baltimore, Maryland, has similar gun controls in place. They also enacted a high capacity magazine ban in 2013. Since then, Charm City has endured higher murder rates than before the ban. Criminal use of such magazines has increased since the ban took effect. In fact, the carnage has risen to such a level that Baltimore’s mayor has called for the Feds to intervene.
Doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results is often coined as a measure of insanity. On this basis, politicians promoting gun control measures should be considered for luxurious vacations at their local funny farm.
Kitchen Table FFLs for Everyone
Unless you are employed by an American news organization, you probably know that a Federal Firearms License (FFL) is required in order to legally deal in guns. We should probably give them a break since the Gun Control Act has only been in effect since 1968.
Many motivated collectors applied for, and received, FFLs in order to pursue their legal hobbies in an above-board manner. These individuals have often been referred to as “Kitchen Table FFLs.”
If you are relatively new to the gun community you may not have heard of this phenomenon. That is because a man by the name of Josh Sugarmann of the Violence Policy Center. He thought that these collectors posed such a threat to public safety that they must lose their licences. So, Mr. Sugarmann set out on a mission of petitioning the Clinton Administration to remedy the situation. Of course, the Administration complied. Since then only those selling firearms for profit are eligible for a FFL.
Now it is time for the funny part. Mr. Sugarmann applied for and received a Federal Firearms Licence for the Violence Policy Center as a non-profit. His application stated that he was a “firearms expert in design and manufacture.” His given purpose for the FFL was for the “examination and publication of written material” about firearms. The application also specifically mentions, “no firearms or ammunition will be sold.”
So which is it then? Is it or is it not possible to have an FFL for purposes other than business profits? It appears that the ATF is not even sure. The folks at LonelyMachines filed a Freedom of Information Request regarding this matter. When it was determined that the VPC does hold a non-profit FFL, they inquired of the ATF as to the steps one must go through in order to obtain a similar licence. At first the ATF stated that it was not possible. When it was pointed out that Mr. Sugarmann had such a license, they finally said that one must put “N/A” to answer the question related to making a profit. Then a sheet of paper is attached to explain the nonprofit business.
Now we all can file for FFLs! Isn’t it awesome that the man who took away the rights of so many people also gave us the method by which those rights can be taken back?
John – I always thought Emily Miller should have had Josh Sugarmann handle her FFL transfer.
Laws for them, but not for us.
Paul – I wonder if I can get an ffl for the Polite Society Podcast?
Constitutional carry for knives in Montana
Montana law treated knives with a blade of more than 4 inches the same as firearms in their concealed carry statute. It is legal to carry concealed weapons in most of Montana, without a permit, except inside city limits. The new law only applied to people in incorporated towns and cities.
This year, 2017, Governor Bullock is term limited, and cannot run again. He for the third time. But Governor Bullock to become law. HB 251 is simple. It removes all weapons from the concealed carry law except firearms. The were 70-29 in the House and 38 to 11 in the Senate. That is more than enough to override a veto from the Governor.
In Montana, if the governor does not sign or veto a bill, within 10 days after it is delivered to him, it becomes law. Constitutional Carry for knives became law on April 21, 2017. It goes into effect on 1 October, 2017.
Rob- Wish we had that in Louisiana.
This next news column is a tribute to our listeners. We’re read the hit-pieces from liberal media criticizing and slandering honest gun owners. We’ve been called ammo-sexuals, trigger trash and child-killers. We’ve heard the NRA compared to ISIS. What is relatively new, is that articulate voices have spoken in opposition to these slanders..and then been fired from the media outlets because of their opinion.
The self-styled “progressive free press” is increasingly intolerant of views that don’t match their liberal talking points. The most recent example was the indefinite suspension of Stacy Washington, a radio and print journalists from Saint Louis. Stacy used to write for the Saint Louis Post Dispatch. In an edited opinion column, Stacy criticized professional journalists who didn’t maintain journalistic standards when they were writing about gun owners and human rights organizations like the NRA. She was fired precisely because she detailed the bias of her editors.
Only 7 percent of journalists describe themselves as republican or conservative. We should not expect the liberal news organizations like the Saint Louis Post Dispatch, New York Times, Huffington post and Buzzfeed to support our opinions. We should not expect fair reporting. We should expect new media outlets to fill the information void left as these former news organizations unveil their propaganda.
Comment- Breitbart News didn’t exist 10 years ago. Today they are the leading media outlet with more facebook and twitter reposts than the large liberal papers.
Comment- Colion Noir didn’t make videos ten years ago. Stacy Washington didn’t have her own radio show ten years ago. Dana Loesch had just started her blog at that point. The only radio show that supported gun owners was Gun Talk. Armed American Radio and Lock and Load Radio wouldn’t start for a few years. The media universe is changing, and the old style outlets don’t like it.
Comment- We didn’t have podcasts delivered to your phone 10 years ago. Stacy still has her blog and her radio show . I wonder who will pick up and syndicate her columns.
Rachel- technology has changed communication…that also changes activism
Rob- you live stream on FB.
Doubling down in California
California Assemblyman Kevin McCarty is pushing legislation to take away school administrators’ power to allow teachers with a Carry Concealed Weapon license (CCW) to be armed in classrooms for self-defense. McCarty’s bill is snaking its way through the legislative process. Two years ago, California passed a bill saying a concealed carry permit holder could not carry on any school campus unless they had the authorization of the school administrator. Well, out of the one thousand school districts in California, five of them decided to allow concealed permit holders to carry on their campuses. That upset the liberal california legislature and their liberal anti-gun donors. Assemblyman McCarty wants to take away the authority of local school boards to allow CCW holders to carry on their campuses. Being a state law, there is no ability to sue the state when your child is attacked in public school.
Comment- I’m not sure if this new law would apply to private schools in California.
Rob- You might remember the five year old girl who picked up a stick and was playing with it in her school in North Carolina. Her name is Caitlin. She and another group of girls were playing “kings and queens” and Caitlin was pretending that she was guarding the palace with a gun. Her father is a soldier in the US army. Caitlin was suspended from kindergarten because of the school’s “zero-tolerance” policy. Caitlin is now 中国体彩官方app schooled..because her parents have a zero-tolerance policy of their own. I know that many people 中国体彩官方app school in California.
Gun Quotes- The world is filled with violence. Because criminals carry guns, we decent law-abiding citizens should also have guns. Otherwise they will win and the decent people will lose. James Earl Jones
Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guests Laura Carno and Sean Maloney.
3- Interview 1- Laura Carno, FASTER training in Colorado
School will be out for the summer recess in a few weeks. Some Colorado teachers will be taking some continuing education in armed defense and medical first response. Some Colorado school districts already had armed staff for years now. Starting this summer, they will also have world class defensive training that was developed in Ohio in the FASTER program. Coloradans for civil liberties is bringing that training to their state. To tell us about that, we we have Laura Carno with us.
Colorado Sheriffs can certify teachers. Do you have some sheriff’s representatives auditing the courses?
Press release from Coloradans for Civil Liberties
When you drop your kids off for school in the morning, or wave goodbye to them at the bus stop, do you ever say a little prayer for their safety? Ask yourself this: Are your kids as safe as they can possibly be at school, or do you just pretend they are to get through the day?
Some parents can say, “Yes! My kids are safe!” because they know that trained medical and armed first responders are ready to protect their children in school. But, not every parent can say that.
Last year, I attended training for these armed first responders in Ohio. It’s called FASTER training which stands for Faculty / Administrator Safety Training and Emergency Response. Essentially, it is training for school staff who volunteer to put their bodies between bullets and your kids — not their own kids— other people’s kids. Ohio has trained almost 900 people over the past 5 years. These 900 school staff members are nothing short of heroes in my book.
When I got back from FASTER training in Ohio, I vowed to bring this life-saving training to Colorado. Colorado kids deserve the same level of protection as Ohio’s kids!
I wrote an about how the experience changed my life. Please read the whole thing.
Now, just 10 months later, we have our first Colorado FASTER class scheduled in June. We are offering this class through an organization I recently co-founded, , in partnership with .
The is traveling to Colorado to train our Colorado training team, who will then conduct the ongoing classes.
FASTER training is for school staff who already have their Concealed Handgun Permit (CHP), and who have the permission of their school or charter board, or are on their way to having permission. We can also help school and charter boards with the process of granting permission.
I’m not asking for money, I’m asking for your help to save our children by identifying Colorado school staff members — those who have what it takes to volunteer to be those trained medical and armed first responders in their schools.
Now that we have our first class dates set in June, we want to make sure that first class is filled to capacity, and that we have waiting lists for our next classes.
Whether you are inside or outside of Colorado, do you know people in Colorado who are:
- School staff members – teachers, administrators, janitors, etc. who would volunteer to save your children’s lives
- School Board and Charter Board members – they are legally able to approve armed first responders in their schools.
- School Board and Charter Board members who have already approved school staff members – this life-saving training is for their staff too.
- Parents of children in Colorado schools – parents should demand that their kids are as safe as possible in schools, by being protected by FASTER trained school personnel.
Send this email to them. Ask them to read the I wrote late year. Then ask them to go to FasterColorado.com and send me an email at CO2ALiberties@gmail.com. I want to hear from them.
The tuition is $1,000 for a 3-day class for those schools and districts who have the training budget for a class like FASTER. We also have scholarships available. We never want anyone to miss out on FASTER training due to the budget constraints of their school or district.
One thing we know about school shootings is that they will happen again. If it does happen at your school, will you be prepared?
4- Interview 2
Paloma Capanna- Do you give up your rights when you own a gun?
Defending gun owners from breach of medical information and release of information kept on federal forms we’re required to submit when we buy a gun.
Decision from the District Ct can be found . The case is now on appeal to the 2nd Circuit Ct of Appeals.
?- Doesn’t this conflict with another Fed law – HIPAA
Politicians get a free pass.
See you in Dallas!
5- DGUs (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.
Concealed Carrier stops possible Mass Shooting
On a recent Thursday evening, Cesar Perez was busy doing his job as the manager of the Zona Caliente Sports Bar and Grill in Arlington Texas. He thought it was going to be a normal Thursday night. At about 6 PM, all that changed. James Jones walked into the bar and started yelling incoherently. Perez tried to calm the man down.
Meanwhile, a customer, who was also a concealed carrier, was sitting at the bar with this wife. He was able to see or hear the disturbance between Perez and Jones going on. During the course of their “argument” Jones pulled out a handgun and shot Perez. Perez died at the scene. The customer told his wife to get down on the ground and pulled his concealed gun. He fired one shot, striking Jones in the back. Jones thought the shot came from the front door and returned fire. Luckily he did not shoot anyone else. Jones also died at the scene.
Police found a second fully loaded semi-automatic on Jones and two knives. The second firearm had the serial number filed off. While Jones will never tell them what his intent was, he was certainly ready to shoot more than just Perez.
Without the quick and decisive action of the Good Samaritan concealed carrier, more Jones could have taken the life of more patrons.
Since Zona Caliente makes the majority of its revenue from food, concealed carry was permitted and the Good Guy with a gun will not be facing any charges.
The only thing that defeats a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. This good guy kept his situational awareness and knew that he was possibly the only person standing between Jones’ one victim becoming a major news story. He got his loved one to a safe place and delivered 1 well placed shot which ended the situation.
Two Drive By Shooters Dead, 1 Intended Victim Untouched
Last weekend in North Houston, a 中国体彩官方appowner was standing outside his 中国体彩官方app at 2:15 AM. Three men in a Nissan sedan drove by with the intention of shooting him. Unlucky for them was the fact that he possesses a concealed handgun license. He returned fire. The car crashed into another vehicle and the three men got out and continued the fight.
The 中国体彩官方appowner proved to be a better shot than the three. After 40 shots fired, the three were all suffering from gunshot wounds and the 中国体彩官方appowner was unharmed. One was pronounced dead at the scene, one tried to flee but was apprehended and died at the hospital and the third was taken into custody at the scene and was being treated from his wounds.
The 中国体彩官方appowner was determined to have acted in self defense. Investigators had been to the same house the day before for a report of attempted arson.
There are questions which remain about this incident. Why was this the second happening at this address in a couple of days?
Rob- This being Houston, the third guy will be out of jail and back on the street in a week.
Rachel- no permit was necessary
Rob- low-light and shooting at moving targets made this a tough encounter.
Domino’s Pizza Driver gets in trouble
It looks like Texas has been busy with DGU’s for the last week or so. For this story, we stay in Texas and move back up to the Dallas area.
Domino’s Pizza driver, David Gerber, has had trouble coming at him on multiple occasions over the last week. On May 6, he was given a deliver to make in Mesquite Texas. It turned out the delivery was to a vacant house and also part of an ambush robbery. Two individuals confronted Gerber and attempted to rob him. One of the young thugs was armed with a handgun and fired at Gerber. He was also armed and fired back at his assailants.
The two suspects then fled. One 16 year old was found a short distance away with a gunshot wound. He later expired from that injury. His accomplice, also 16, was found and placed under arrest for aggravated robbery.
It was originally reported that Gerber did not have a handgun license which could have resulted in a charge of unlawfully carrying a weapon but later that was changed to the fact that he did have a concealed carry permit for the State of Arizona which is recognized by Texas.
Domino’s has suspended Gerber pending the investigation into the shooting. Mesquite Police have referred the matter to the Dallas County grand jury to determine if charges are warranted.
This type of ambush robbery has to be a constant worry of any delivery driver and in particular those like pizza drivers who deal in cash. We have reported that some companies such as Uber have a no guns policy. It appears that Domino’s does not have such a policy and the only thing standing in the way of this driver getting his job back is the grand jury determining this was a good shoot.
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6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close
Onair@ad7.8f3.myftpupload.com or call or text 605-215-1438
Text message #1
A friend and I were going back and forth about which device would be best for 中国体彩官方app defense.
He says laser, I say a tac light. I’m not sure how much training he has had but I have a few classes under my belt. One of the things one of my instructors said was that with a light you can light up the threat with a quick on off or strobe method to blind them. Move, then yell your commands. My friend just says why do all that when I can just put my laser on them. Rolling my eyes, his comments make me think he lacks training. Anyway I’d love to know what’s you guys opinion. Keep up the good work. #Norecipes
Tac light vs Laser part 2. I forgot to mention that my instructor is retired SWAT. So I’d listen to him before taking advice from My know it all friend Barney Fife.
Paul – Combination light/laser
Are there any plans to get POGO made on a patch? That would be cool to have on a range bag.
How bout that low turn out at the NRAAM by Mom’s demand action? I love it when Bloomberg bleeds green, what a waste. Lol
You would think someone with his net worth would have better things to do then harassing law abiding citizens. Until next time
Rob- the demanding momies were flying in their supporters to the NRA AM.
John – Patch – maybe;
Rachel- so, JP, if you want that POGO patch, just get all the current PSP patches sold quickly!
JOHN – Text message #2
Hey guys this is kris from Nashville in episode 406 y’all were talking about how you keep your guns while you sleep. My wife and I do not have kids so I keep mine in a Safariland ALS holster on a police duty belt with double mag pouch and a Surefire flashlight. What do y’all think about this?
ROB- Email #1
Alan of Henryetta, Oklahoma wrote in.
Dear Polite Society Folks,
In episode 407, Rob Morse mentioned that he had finished reading Dustin Solomon’s book, Building Shooters. I would be interested in hearing how he has changed his training and/or teaching methods.
I am not a professional firearms instructor. If I were, and implemented the principles in the book to make sure my students actually learned something, I would quit and find another job. It would be impossible to make a living following an actual brain-based learning curriculum. Fortunately, I only teach individuals or very small groups from time to time. Since I and my students are not on a strict time table, I would limit the amount of material covered and limit instruction time to one hour, three times a week and follow the model Solomon lays out.
One of the most important training concepts mentioned in the book is that of interleaved or chaotic training. Some training programs use some of these principles. I took Rob Pincus’ Combat Focused Shooting course a few years ago. His figure 8 drill comes close, but there are still a lot of limitations on a live fire range.
Training by myself, or with a partner in my own outside space using the SIRT pistol has a lot of advantages such as freedom of movement and different light levels. These are only a couple of things that I do, some previously known, some new and some reinforced from the material in the book.
Thank you for writing in. You are right. Our current style of firearms training is designed to make money for the instructor, not to teach the student. We charge more for a 10 hour course than for a one hour course. In fact, the student doesn’t learn much more from the longer course. As students, we may walk away inspired, but not with new skills.
I went back and proved it to myself. I’ve attended classes where I wrote down the material they covered. I didn’t have those skills. I might develop them through self-study, but the course did not teach them to me. As an instructor, I’ve failed my students when the majority of them can’t apply the class material I present. It isn’t their fault. It is mine. Given the way I’m teaching, selling a defective product. That was the core of what I took away from Solomon’s book.
Let me bring new listeners up to speed. Dustin Solomon’s conclusion is that we can only learn so much at a time. Instructors in other fields recognized this a long time ago. Think about the apprentice system where the student receives a few minutes of instruction every day. Also consider the music teacher model and the local self-defense dojo model where the students get a weekly lesson. A music teacher shows you what to do, but you have to practice at 中国体彩官方app to learn the skills. We can do that with firearms instruction, and I find the change inspiring.
I looked at the skills we need for self-defense, and I broke them down into the categories we can learn at the same time. That means we can teach all the information, but not at the same time. It turns out we can learn fine motor skills AND gross motor skills in the same lesson. What we can’t do is learn a bunch of fine motor skills at the same time because the memories compete and interfere. For example, if I try to teach grip, trigger manipulation, and sight alignment in the same lesson, then I’m leaving it up to the student as to which skill, if any, the student actually learns. That could be why we have to correct a student’s grip lesson after lesson.
Here is the good news. I can teach grip and stance at the same time, since one is a fine motor skill and the other is a gross motor skill involving the lower body. Planned instruction becomes a Chinese menu selection. Take one fine motor skill from column A, one gross motor from column B, and one self-defense concept from column C.
As Allen said in a personal e-mail, the two day and four day classes are designed so institutional organizations can say their staff was (quote) trained (close quote.)
Rachel- I am so glad I have intelligent, articulate friends like you, Rob. It frustrates me that I can’t always make sure students are able to effectively apply instruction from an intensive course. I wish I could teach firearms like I teach music: weekly private lessons, with private practice mandated in between. I hope one day I will. I look forward to continuing conversations with you, Rob.
Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts you want to mention?
Rob- I know you like to teach. I wonder when you’ll start your own firearms instruction business.
Rob- I wrote a three part series on how our right to bear arms is infringed every day. After hearing Donald J. Trump speak at the NRA, I wanted him to do more. I wrote another article called I listed the things the President could do to protect our rights, actions that don’t depend on congressional approval. That and more is posted at Clash Daily, at Ammoland and at my blog,
John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money
John- After our friend Bob Owens of BearingArms.com committed suicide I fully expected nasty stuff coming from the gun prohibitionists and I wasn’t disappointed. . He is an embarrassment to the gun rights movement in general and to the open carry movement in particular. With people like him, who needs enemies.
That and more is at
Paul – more than 40 people and comments were deleted and blocked
We would like to thank Charlie Foxtrot for writing up show notes for us. Even though you don’t hear him on the air he is certainly part of what you do hear. Look at his blog at
Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. I’d like to thank (Guests) for joining us today. So for Charlie Foxtrot, Jae, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Craig, and Rob,
(Paul, stop talking now)
Rob: Until the next time…
Gary: stay safe,
Rachel: be aware,
John: and we’ll see you down the road.
(after show close) How could we have made this episode better?
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