Full Episode Download:
1- Open and Personal News Segment:
2- News Segment:
3- Interview Segment 1: R.P. Ruggero
4- Geeks Gadgets and Guns talks about Samsung
5- DGU Segment:
6- Email and Show Close:
Paul: Welcome中国体彩官方app to the Polite Society Podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on October 16th, 2016, I’m Paul Lathrop
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and we talk with author R. P. Ruggerio about his third and last book in the series “Brushfire Plague”.
John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about the Houston 9-1-1 operator who continually hung up on people – even in life and death situations.
Rachel: I’m Rachel Malone, and we’ll give you the death toll from shootings in the “gun-free” city of Chicago.
Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in one of our DGU’s we will talk about a criminal that brought a bat to a gunfight…. So climb aboard,
Rachel: strap in
John: and hang on!
Paul: episode 391 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.
Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)
Rob – I got in some dry practice before I went to the Texas Firearms Festival. I got to see the lovely and talented Rachel Malone in person.. As well as Dr. John Edeen, Scott and Mandy Gibbons, Tracy Thronberg and the Roberts. What is the most popular concealed carry handgun? They were not there to try.
John – The only thing gun related that I’ve done this week was think about assembling my AR pistol lower. I had planned to do it yesterday but other stuff needed to be done. I did register for the SHOT Show and have tried to register Barb for her Media Badge. If you are friends with me on Facebook you know the difficulties I’ve been having with that. I’m more than a little disgusted and if I was less restrained I’d say something that would get this podcast an explicit rating.
- Pecos – made it all the way without DQing a single stage (DQ’s are when you don’t make all the hits before the time runs out). Lesson: training works. Train physically AND mentally, exactly how you want to perform. I didn’t perform at my best, but my worst (tired, hot, not feeling well) was plenty good enough.
- CSAT Instructor Course – it was a challenge to shoot the . Very proud of getting this certification. Lessons: (1) sometimes less is more in teaching. Give fewer points and make sure they’re taught and applied thoroughly. (2) I like the way that the pistol standards give no room for error. You have to do everything mechanically correctly. (4) I’ve been shooting .40 this year as an experiment. I struggled with the fast shots and one-handed shots, and ended up switching to 9mm to make the standards. .
- Texas Firearms Festival – glad I got to run the rifle range today. Lessons: (1) gadgets and optics don’t make up for crappy shooting. Better to have a plain stock rifle and have solid fundamentals. (2) I was impressed with Gunwerks guys and ATX Armory – they seemed the most squared-away and on the same page as I am. I want to attend a Gunwerks distance rifle course.
Promo about upcoming training classes here.
(Jeff Street class)
(June 24, 25th 2017. Beyond Concealed Carry Enhanced. 9am -5pm both days. Richmond, IL)
(June 15 – 18, 2017. MAG-40. Sioux Falls, SD)
(August 26 & 27, 2017. Beyond Concealed Carry Enhanced. Sioux Falls, SD)
Live read ACLDN
1- Houston – We have a problem
A 9-1-1 operator is accused of intentionally hanging up on callers during emergencies simply because she was not in the mood to help. Crenshanda Williams with interference with an emergency telephone call. Williams had been employed as a telecommunicator with the Houston Emergency Center since July 2014, and supervisors began to notice that her logs revealed an abnormally high amount of “short calls,” with a duration of less than 20 seconds. Supervisors investigated the recorded call logs, and found that Williams had disconnected thousands of calls between Oct. 2015 and March 2016. Williams raised suspicion on March 12 when she allegedly hung up on several callers – one call was ended immediately after she picked it up. During another call, an operator — identified as Williams — is heard answering “Houston 911, do you need medical, police or fire?” When the male caller responded, “This is a robbery,” Williams is heard sighing before hanging up. Investigators tracked down the robbery/shooting caller, who confirmed someone hung up the phone the first time he called in, frustrating him, and he had to call back a second time. By the time police arrived, a person was dead. Investigators said that the following day, Williams hung up on several more people, including a security officer who was attempting to report a dangerous street racing incident. The operator, again identified as Williams, said “Houston 911, do you need medical, police or fire?” The caller only had time to say “This is officer Molten. I’m driving on 45 South right now and I am at ……” before Williams ended the call. Although the call was disconnected, the recording captured Williams saying, “Ain’t nobody got time for this. For Real.” The officer called in again, and a different 911 operator picked up and assisted him. Investigators reached out to the officer, who also confirmed the “hang up call” on that day. Police say Williams admitted to disconnecting the calls because she “did not want to talk to anyone at that time.” Investigators said Williams’ actions prevented and interfered with the callers’ ability to request assistance during an emergency and charges were filed against her. Williams’ bond was set at $1,000.
Rob- This is why I like the private sector. We get to fire people in the private sector. The government wants us to depend on them?
Paul – She needs to spend time in jail
John – A year and one day –
2-The Ferguson Effect
A Chicago police officer pulled up to an accident scene earlier this month and nearly lost her life when dealing with the people involved with the accident.
The female officer, a 17 year veteran of the CPD got into a physical confrontation with a man who was high on PCP and decided not to use her firearm although the man beat her head into the pavement repeatedly until she lost consciousness.
Her superintendent spoke to the Chicago Tribune and stated ”As I was at the hospital last night, visiting with her, she looked at me and said she thought she was gonna die, and she knew that she should shoot this guy, but she chose not to because she didn’t want her family or the department to go through the scrutiny the next day on national news”
While we understand what she was thinking we have to mention that she very well could have died and when she lost consciousness she lost control of her firearm, thereby effectively giving it to a VERY bad guy.
John – I find this very sad. What would have family have gone through if she had died?! That would have been far worse.
Rachel – Lesson for us: think about this very thing before you ever put on a gun. If you can’t overcome these obstacles, if you know that, in the worst case scenario when your life is on the line, you wouldn’t choose to pull the trigger, then don’t carry a gun.
3- 10/15/2016, 01:48am
Seven men were killed and at least 31 others have been wounded in shootings across Chicago since Friday evening.
The weekend’s most recent homicide happened Saturday morning in the Little Village neighborhood on the Southwest Side.
Rob- Why should it change?
4- Gun Control 101
There has been a wealth of information about the Clintons provided by Wikileaks during the month of October. It should come as no surprise that the establishment media chooses to ignore these revelations. You know, Donald Trump made some inappropriate comments 11 years ago! There just isn’t enough time in a 24 hour news cycle to cover both stories.
One of these issues was discovered in the email communications of Hillary’s campaign manager, John Podesta. Clinton and her staff were working on an essay for Marie Claire magazine to further their gun control agenda. The emails being exchanged made it clear that Clinton and her staff were selectively discarding gun uses that did not further their agenda. According to AWR Hawkins of Breitbart News, a story about a shooting where a black man, Jordan Davis, was killed by a white man did not make the cut because they assumed the incident was racially motivated. This case is summarized in Andrew Branca’s, The Law of Self Defense. Davis’ killer was convicted of numerous charges, including murder. However, Davis was involved in escalating the confrontation and allegedly pointed a shotgun-like object and threatened to kill the white man. The focus of the article was supposed to be about domestic abuse victims. Selective use of data to further an agenda is stacking the deck and inappropriate.
Clinton also asserted that “thousands of children die” from guns. This is another case of manipulation of facts. Gang members aged 15 to 17 that are involved in criminal activity are included in these figures. However, the statistics are presented to give the impression that they are speaking of the deaths of innocents. You can say that cats kill people if you include lions and tigers.
Rob- vet your media.
John – I think the Instapundit has had it right.
4- Interview R. P. Ruggerio Book three of the series “Brushfire Plague”
5- DGUs (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.
Don’t Bring a Bat to a Gunfight
“Have you ever been ” That was the question the bat-wielding Philip Keys, 30, asked a 22-year-old couple in a St Cloud, Minnesota Wal-Mart parking lot. When Keys closed with the retreating couple and raised his bat to strike, the husband pulled his legally possessed CCW and ordered the attacker to drop his bat.
Showing more sense than his appearance would indicate, Keys let loose the bat and fell to the parking lot. Repenting his sanity, he got up and walked away. He was allowed to leave by the CCW Permit holder. No shots were fired, and the victims were unhurt. Police later arrived, located and arrested Keys, who could face second-degree assault charges.
Although all the elements of a were there: Ability, Opportunity and Intent, the husband first chose to rely on his shouted orders and the sight of the gun to stop the attacker. From the reports, Keys seemed well within the when commanded to stop, putting the CCW carrier at significant risk of injury or death. Fortunately, the unstable man did stop, giving this DGU the best of all possible outcomes: an attack safely ended without a shot being fired.
We commend the couple for their actions in the attack: they were situationally aware and moved to distance themselves from the threat, and when retreat was no longer possible, and the requirements of the Deadly Force Triad had been exceeded, the CCW carrier used his weapon to dissuade the criminal. The man exhibited considerable humanity in giving the attacker one more chance. He then correctly allowed the batman to leave. Even more, the man had the foresight to obtain his Concealed Carry Permit and then to carry his firearm, even though he and his wife were only going to a “safe” Wal-Mart.
Well done, people. Well done, indeed.
I think we can certainly chalk this up as another win for POGO. You listening Bloomberg?
Photo courtesy of the Stearns County Jail
Paul – Great use of restraint.
You CAN’T Have it Your Way!!!
Two young adults and three juveniles found they couldn’t Have it Their Way in an Indianapolis, Indiana Burger King. Their city-wide string of in three days came to a halt when one man interrupted their spree. Fate was kind to the victims, the public-spirited citizen happened to be a concealed carrier and just happened to be a firearms instructor.
The five entered the Burger King in hoodies and masks and carrying guns. One juvenile immediately pointed his gun at a cashier and demanded money. The CCW carrier had seen the quintuple putting on their masks and followed them inside. When the workers were threatened, the instructor acted. As he ordered the robbers to the floor, one armed juvenile turned toward the customer, who opened fire. In the exchange of fire, the robber fired one to the instructors five times, who connected with a superficial wound to his opponent’s arm. The criminal dropped his firearm and ran from the Burger King. He was followed by his four accomplices, one who also dropped his gun. The citizen, and all the the employees and customers in the restaurant were unhurt in the gunfire.
The five were later arrested by Indianapolis police. Four of the master criminals immediately confessed their crime spree to the police. We wonder if the fifth was at the hospital being stitched and doped up. All five could be charged with felony armed robbery and kidnapping. The wounded juvenile could face an additional felony charge of attempted battery by means of a deadly weapon.
Police commended the actions of the firearms instructor, as do we. He could have certainly taken the safer, and probably wiser, path of simply being a good witness. However, this sheepdog chose to act to protect the innocents. Well done, sir.
Rob- Again, was this well practiced defender wise or lucky?
Paul – what are you doing following robbers into a robbery site?
Rachel – agreed with both. Also, sometimes gut feelings are true. But in a life or death situation, you’d better be REALLY sure you can trust your gut feeling before doing something like this. In the end, #wewerentthere.
The gray council-
We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com Please take a minute and share them with a friend.
6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close
Hey Paul let me know if you need me to come with and climb around caves so you don’t hurt your back looking for antique Japanese rifles!
Congrats on the Shield 9mm, Paul! I tell customers at the range I’d buy three if I could justify the spending, I have six different ways to carry them! -Clayton
Thanks for having Charlie Cook on the show! Charlie, I am proud of you for furthering your instructor skillset. Very cool of you being known for shotgun riding!
Working hard to keep those recipes off the air, thanks for appreciating me Gary! -Clayton
Thanks for the coverage of GRPC; I was registered last year and unable to attend. Dallas would certainly make things easier for me in 2017.
To add to the the “can of worms” John mentioned, anyone interested in this subject should check out Krisanne Hall’s podcasts at. Search for “convention” in the upper right corner of her site and you’ll find her five part series on this subject. She references the Congressional Research Service’s opinions on the subject and notes that Congress has not been ignoring this possibility. Evaluate her opinions for yourself, but the series is well worth a listen by anyone who wonders about the effectiveness of such a convention or how it might function.
Also, I am completely against a national reciprocity agreement. Anytime we invite government, especially the Federal government, into our business it ends up badly for freedom. We are simply asking for a subsequent congress or regulatory agency to establish a system that we will regret. As much as a pain as it is now, far better in my opinion to let gun states be gun states, and not force them under a big umbrella with the likes of CA, NJ, MA, or HI. It won’t end well for gun owners. I would rather see this issue worked at the state level with mutual agreements.
Paul – The 14th amendment should be
Rob- Are we going to play hardball back? What has playing by the rules brought us?
Thanks for the GRPC coverage, much appreciated from all of us who couldn’t make it.
It was interesting to hear your George Zimmerman interview. He’s always been painted as a loose cannon, yet he sounded very polite and relatable. I am grateful he was able to help Paul through his struggle with an evil prosecuting attorney.
Also appreciate you folks dishing out political advice to people who think their vote doesn’t matter! Even if you can only make a difference in your local government, that adds up!
I appreciate the coverage on Mr. Falconer stopping the terrorist in St. Cloud. That one hit 中国体彩官方app for me, I’ve been to that mall! I have a lot friends in St. Cloud.
The attack had a few silver linings around here: showing the world an IDPA shooter saving lives with his skill set was a good one!
A substantial number of sheep-people realized things like this can happen anywhere and that they didn’t have a way to stop maniacs with knives unless they got some training and acquired weapons of their own.
I feel it also got a lot of criticism off the backs of people like us who already carry. I just had a friendly encounter with two police officers in Champlin, Minnesota, after which they referenced the mall stabbing and said they appreciated me being armed.
Stay polite but stay dangerous!
We had a listener send us this link
Even though it is not a DGU I wanted to mention it in the listener feedback segment.
I’ve not yet been so, uh, inspired to STOP the podcast playing in my ears and immediately go to my email machine and send you a note. At 1:37:00 in episode 390 (GRPC episode), John said, “The key thing to remember about a convention of the states is that they can propose anything, any changes, they have no rules. Once you have a convention of the states anything can be proposed, including getting rid of the Second Amendment.” This is correct. However, your unstated–but glaringly obvious–belief is that these proposals can come out of the convention of states as new law by conventional fiat.
What you are thinking of is a Constitutional Convention, the likes of which we have had only once. A convention of states is merely a way for the STATES to propose Constitutional amendments. So far, only the Congress has proposed amendments. The states have never done so, even though clearly given the authority by the Constitution through a convention of states.
Every amendment that is proposed by the convention of states must go through the exact same process of getting ratified by three-quarters of the states’ legislatures. That process will keep every bad idea (and probably most good ideas) from ever becoming ensconced in our great Constitution. A convention of states is NOT “opening a can of worms.”
Please, John, do not pass along faulty information that shows yourself ill-informed. Instead, advocate for a convention of states since there are so many issues that our corrupt Congress would NEVER propose, including term limits for law-makers and judges and requirements for balanced budgets.
With all due respect and admiration,
John – I’d like to respond to Chris since I’m mentioned in his email. His presumption that I thought anything proposed by a Convention of the States became instantly law is erroneous. Having taken two semesters of Constitutional Law in college I know as well as he does what Article V specifies. However, I still do think that a Convention of the State is a can of worms and I don’t think this is ill-informed. As reasonable people,we will continue to have a difference of opinion.
Rachel- I wasn’t present for the discussion on the last episode, but I’ve had plenty of conversations on the subject. I am not in favor of a constitutional convention, or an Article V convention (many people distinguish the two). There are lots of reasons, so I’ll just mention one right now: people. What people exactly is it who would be involved in this convention of the states? (probably some sort of delegates….chosen by the people….let me think, isn’t Congress made up of delegates…chosen by the people?) What people would be writing amendments? What people would be responsible for ratifying and enforcing these? In short, why do we think a new system or set of rules or amendments will make a difference? If the people of the United States have gotten us where we are now and are keeping us here, I don’t believe a new system is really going to change that. I was raised in a cult that was obsessed with always creating a new system. Anytime things were messed up, a convention was called and new principles and systems were taught. We implemented them rigorously. It never fixed anything. A new system will not fix broken people.
That having been said, I could be wrong. Either way, you are absolutely entitled to your own belief, and I still support your efforts to create change in the way you believe is most effective. If we end up with a convention of the states, I absolutely hope it ends up well.
Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts you want to mention?
Rob- I wrote about babysitting.. And carrying around small children. The article is called It was my first article for the blog at My articles are up at . Slowfacts. That is at
John, tell us what’s new at your blog No Lawyers Only Guns and Money
I want to give for their great use of technology to advance gun rights. They have a smart phone app that will tell you who the pro-gun candidates are by putting in your address. The other important blog post of the week concerns 15 out of the 24 official hotels for the SHOT Show are owned by companies that have donated between $25 and $50K each to the gun control effort. If Question 1 passes, the SHOT Show should and must be moved out of Las Vegas. You can’t reward the enemies of freedom. Check the post to see if your hotel hates freedom.
That and more is at
Paul – SHOT or NRA?
We are a proud founding member of the Self Defense Radio Network, We would like to suggest that you listen to other shows on the network as well like…
Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. I’d like to thank R P Ruggerio for joining us today. So for Charlie Foxtrot, Festus, Craig, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, and Rob,
(Paul, stop talking now)
Rob: Until the next time…
Gary: stay safe,
Rachel: be aware,
John: and we’ll see you down the road.
(after show close) How could we have made this episode better?
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