Episode 387 – FREEDOM! Paul Tells His Story

Full Episode Download:

1- Open and Personal News Segment

2- News Segment 1

3- Interview Segment 1: Kathy Jackson

4- Paul’s Story Part 1

4a – Paul’s Story Part 2

5- DGU Segment:

6- Email and Show Close:


1- Introduction


Paul: Welcome中国体彩官方app to the polite society podcast sponsored by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Thursday, August 25th, 2016, I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we talk with Kathy Jackson about Instructor training.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about Hillary’s plans for the Second Amendment

Rachel: I’m Rachel Malone, and we will hear Paul tell us his story about being falsely arrested in Gretna, Nebraska.

Paul C: I’m Paul Carlson, and we have news about the Pennsylvania Attorney General who ran afoul of the law in a big way.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and we report on a DGU one town over from our own Charlie Foxtrot .. so climb aboard

Rachel: strap in

John : and hang on!

Paul: episode 387 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.


Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)


Rob- Spoke to Browning about an ambidextrous 1911-22. They said you can’t get there from here. I showed the Eddie Eagle Cartoon to a 2 year old, a 4 year old, and their mom. A good start. I also wrote an advertisement for the Buckeye Firearms Foundation. I’ll be on Gun Freedom Radio this Saturday. And POGO.


John – Remember a couple of weeks ago I mentioned converting a bowling ball into a pivoting base for a gun vise? Let me tell you that cutting a bowling ball in half is a chore using a handsaw! I hope to finish the project tomorrow. In gun related news, I plan to go to a gun show this weekend in Greensboro. I may be meeting up with an unnamed gun podcaster whose voice our listeners might recognize but whose face has never been seen on the Internet.


Rachel – I shot revolvers with Tracy Thronburg, a friend and fellow shooter and instructor. If you ever get a chance to train with Tracy, take it.

I also marked my calendar for a political meeting I’m excited about – well, as excited as I get about politics. The SREC (Texas GOP board) meets Sept. 9-10 in Austin and a major item on their agenda is organizing the brand new Legislative Priority Committee. Constitutional Carry is our #1 priority and if things go as planned, there will be at least one person assigned to spearhead efforts for each priority – using party resources. Keeping fingers crossed that progress doesn’t get lost in bureaucracy. Join me for the meeting – either live in Austin, or through the livestream from your 中国体彩官方app.

Rob- I trained with Tracy, and learned a lot. Chris Cerino is in your backyard now.


Gary- I have atrial fibrillation. May need electro shock. New diet, and I lost 35 pounds.. Eating only potatoes for 2 weeks.


Paul Carlson – I spent a bunch of time working on a Remington 700 that needs to get more accurate. I spent some time getting it sighted in and am getting ready to swap the stock to a Magpul Hunter 700 with a BDM.

I’m looking forward to mounting up an Aridus Industries QDC on my Remington 1100.


I also spent some time making sure my SSA Training Trailer is all squared away and that everything has a place.

Paul L: we got our plan b’s


Paul/Susan- Did anything interesting happen with us? We will get to that in a special segment after our interview with Kathy Jackson. I have to admit that I am usually a little jealous of Rob, as it seems that he is always on really cool podcasts and radio shows as a guest. Well since Tuesday I have been on Bob Mayne’s Handgun World Podcast, Safety Solutions Academy Podcast with Paul Carlson, The Gun Blog Variety Cast with Sean Sorrentino, and Lock and Load Radio with Bill Frady. Appearances are scheduled with Gun Freedom Radio and Tom Gresham’s Gun talk Radio.


Promo about upcoming training classes here.



2- News 1

In a recent article for foxnews.com, Second Amendment champion John Lott provided some thoughtful commentary on Hillary Clinton’s gun control leanings. As you would expect, Dr. Lott provided substantial support for his conclusions.


He points out that the media fact checkers are in a tizzy because Donald Trump often states that Mrs. Clinton wants to “essentially abolish the Second Amendment.” As Lott points out, CNN portrayed this as a “persistent” and “false” accusation while the Washington Post calls Mr. Trump’s statements “absurd.”


The trick here is that Mrs. Clinton knows how to play the game. One day she says that she is “…not looking to repeal the Second Amendment” and “not looking to take people’s guns away.” However, she has campaigned on gun control. She supports, “a 25 percent tax on handguns, an assault weapons ban, repeal of laws allowing permitted concealed handguns, and background checks on the private transfer of guns.” She has also agreed with increased fees and regulations imposed by her husband during his tenure as President. These regulations saw the number of licensed firearms dealers fall by 73 percent between 1992 and 2000.


In a recent interview with George Stephanopoulos, Mrs. Clinton referred to Heller as “the decision by the late Justice Scalia.” Yes, Justice Scalia wrote the majority opinion. But, wasn’t it really the Court’s decision? She would not even concede that the right to keep and bear arms is a constitutional right!


Mrs. Clinton states that prior to Heller, “there was a nuanced reading of the Second Amendment” and that, until that time, there was no argument …that localities and states and the federal government had a right, as we do with every amendment, to impose reasonable regulation.” Well, it is comforting to know that she is qualified to determine what reasonable searches and seizures, cruel and unusual punishment, due process and double jeopardy limitations should be. Why not go after the first amendment, too? There is no doubt that Mrs. Clinton would like to stifle the voices of Rush Limbaugh, Fox News and others who sometimes paint a less than rosy picture of her.


Mrs. Clinton told a group of New York donors, “The Supreme Court is wrong on the Second Amendment, and I am going to make that case every chance that I get.” Dr. Lott points out that the Supreme Court only reviewed laws that were complete gun bans and another that made it a crime to use a gun. You would think the Court struck down universal background checks, assault weapons bans and other policies in her large bag of tricks. Let’s not forget that she would like to repeal the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act in order to bankrupt firearms manufacturers. Her dutiful daughter, Chelsea, also promised that her mother’s Supreme Court appointments would overturn decisions such as Heller. More than ever, elections have consequences.


John – One thing that encourages me is that gun companies are starting to step up with contribution to the NRA and the NSSF to fight her. Ruger will match contributions to the NRA-ILA dollar for dollar up to $5 million.


Paul L – Anyone who is paying attention should know that Hillary really IS anti rights, not just anti gun. It’s our duty to inform our friends and neighbors

Rachel- Yes, elections have consequences. The results of the election are a reflection of us as a country中国体彩官方app. As much as I intensely dislike Clinton and her positions, I believe that if you want to change the reflection, don’t just punch the mirror.

Paul C – The best news on all of this is that at least Mrs. Clinton isn’t playing a moderate game. Instead, she is laying it all out and that will be to her disadvantage.

Rob- I’m amazed how the media hides the gun ban that Hillary has called a political priority.


2- News 2

And now for something completely different. Well, maybe not so different if you are from New York or Illinois. The first female Democrat to be elected to the lofty position of attorney general in Pennsylvania has quickly become embroiled in a web of scandal.


Last week Attorney General, Kathleen Kane was convicted of nine criminal charges. The former Lackawanna County prosecutor had a defense team that provided no witnesses during the trial and the attorney general did not testify on her own behalf. The charges ranged from two felony perjury counts to criminal conspiracy and obstruction of justice. At the core of the matter was a plot to discredit her political rival, prosecutor Frank Fina. Attorney General Kathleen Kane leaked grand jury testimony to the press in order to imply that Mister Fina did not vigorously prosecute corruption. Of course, Kathleen Kane was implicated in the subsequent cover up of her leaked information.


In the wake of all of this turmoil, Mrs. Kane’s law license was suspended and fellow Democrat, Governor Tom Wolf, has called for her resignation. She resigned the following day.


After the verdict was handed down, Judge Wendy Demchick-Alloy felt compelled to provide these words of admonition: “There is to be absolutely no retaliation of any kind against any witness in this case, either by your own devices, from your own mouth or your hand, or directing anybody to do anything.” Given the lengths that Mrs. Kane would go to discredit a rival, is it any wonder the judge would believe it necessary to prohibit revenge when prison time is on the line?


Mrs. Kane is currently free on bail while awaiting sentencing. There is a potential for 28 years in prison. It would be interesting to know the pressure placed on the judge during the 90 days prior to the hearing!


As you may recall, Mrs. Kane unilaterally canceled reciprocity agreements between Pennsylvania and Utah and Idaho. She also refused to defend her state’s preemption law from municipalities that were challenging it in court. These acts should come as no surprise since she was placed in office by the Clinton political machine. Her elected office was her reward for supporting Mrs. Clinton’s first attempt to win the White House. She defeated Obama’s choice, Patrick Murphy, in the primary. Kane was on the fast track to the US Senate. With a couple of felonies on her record, she will not be among those of us with concealed carry permits. So, why is it that criminals like her are deciding what is best for us? As we often say, “elections have consequences.”


Comment- She didn’t launder millions of dollars of foreign money, so she might be convicted.


John – It was not only the Clinton Machine that put her in office. It was ads paid for by Michael Bloomberg. She repaid him with her antigun stance especially with regard to reciprocity. I think he had high hopes that she might go on to be governor or senator.


Rob- She was set for a Senate run. Was she hired by the Clinton campaign?


Gun Quotes-

The constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms- Samuel Adams


Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest Kathy Jackson.



3- Interview 1 with Kathy Jackson. Instructors are made, not born.

Putting the material together for instruction forces us to learn the material at a deeper level. What is essential? What is the best way to present that material?


As an instructor, I ask myself what happened. What went well? What can I improve? Then write down the answers! There is a lot of complexity behind the scene that makes it possible to present the material and make it look simple.


You have to thoroughly know what you’re teaching. However, each of us are still in progress and always will be. Karl Rehn has researched some objective standards for instructor shooting levels – mathematically figured out what score on each of many standards would be considered “instructor” level for the top shooting schools. Our goal should be to shoot within that range, on demand, cold. Keep working toward that point; however, you can still teach even if you’re not there yet.


You need to score at least 70 percent of the experts to be competent. I’ve been training since 1999. I was leading classes by 2005. Training on my own since 2013. I’m not a natural student. I was persistent and conscientious. Teaching was the best way for me to continue to learn.


Two tracts for instructor development. Classes vs mentoring. We need more instructors, so how do we efficiently develop competent instructors. We need to talk and we need to show.


Rob- I was struck by the review process you use as an instructor.

What happened? What went well? What can I improve? Then write down the answers. That sounds like what I do as a student. Is that a broader technique for both teachers and students.


Kathy- Those notes let you maintain your skills and develop your skills between training classes. You will make the same mistakes unless you concentrate on strengthening your weaknesses.


Your timed evaluation reminds me of IDPA where you always are ranked as percentage compared to the top shooters in that event.. And in that particular stage.


Class coming up in Philadelphia. Annette Evans blogs at


4- Paul’s Story 1


4a Paul’s story 2


I need to thank my beautiful wife Susan. She has stood by me through this and provided more strength than she will ever know. I need to thank everyone on this show. Beyond co hosts, beyond friends, they have become in many cases my confidants, my counselors, and my cheerleaders. Kathy Jackson, Massad Ayoob, and Gail Pepin. I consider Kathy my friend and mentor. I consider Gail and Mas friends and role models. Before I was even released from jail these people were in contact with Susan and made sure that she had what she needed and were supportive of her when I couldn’t be. I want to thank Larry and Stacy Piekarski for going out of their way to help in a time of need, and of course Marty and Gila Hayes and everyone at ACLDN. Finally I want to thank each and every person who donated, or messaged or posted to social media or in any way got in touch and said “ we believe in you. We know you are innocent and we have your back.”


Unless you have been through something similar you can’t know how much that means to someone who feels like they have their back up against the wall.


Rob- Paul, your story is frightening. If you were charged, then anyone could have been charged. You were innocent and they ran you through the legal mill to drain you of tens of thousands of dollars. What would have happened to you if you couldn’t have raised the money for a defense?


Paul C – We covered a lot of details, including things that you would have done differently, when you joined me on the SSA Podcast and I want to say “thank you” for that. What would you have done differently if you were in the truck stop facing the same situation right now?


Paul- Lessons learned. I’d call 911 as soon as the guy started walking towards our truck. I’d also be a member of the . That means I would have had a great lawyer at my bail hearing.


John – Do you think the less than polite behavior of the student pushed the other guy to overreact?

Paul- Yes. Wear the mantle of innocence.

John- Do you want to carry less than lethal weapons such as pepper spray?

Paul- No. I tried a voice. I was willing to go to guns.

John- Was the driver who made the false accusation an independent driver or company driver? If a company driver, is his company aware of the false accusations? Do you think they bear any liability for his conduct?
Paul L-
Paul C – For those folks out there that don’t spend a lot of time on the road how do you feel about truck stops and rest areas in general? Do you see them as areas that concentrate criminal activity? Are there any suggestions you have for folks regarding staying safe when they are traveling?

Gary – Given what we learned in MAG40 do you think shooting this guy would be justified?


Paul- It is tough to bring legal action against people unless you have a lot of money.


Rob- There is a school boy assumption that someone would face legal penalties for lying to the police. Is that true?


Rob- It seems the police wanted a case they could prosecute rather than a case that served justice.


Here is Paul’s interview with

Here is Paul’s interview with


5- DGUs (at beginning)

Let’s not document murders gone wrong. RM

Here in Peyton Place, Missouri

Our Charlie Foxtrot didn’t have far to go to research this DGU — just to the next town over. An O’Fallon, Missouri woman shot a strange man in her 中国体彩官方app. In the 911 call, she pleads for help for an ongoing break-in, robbery, and armed assault — then several shots are heard. Police arrived to find Louis R. Gumpenberger, 33, dead from multiple gunshot wounds. Pamela Hupp, 57, told officers of being confronted in her driveway by a man with a knife, knocking the blade away, and escaping to her bedroom where she grabbed the gun. The gun that she used to defend her life.

However, something wasn’t quite right from the start.

Gumpenberger was severely handicapped, left physically and mentally impaired by a 2005 car accident. He lived 13 miles from the death scene, and no one could understand how he could travel that distance since he could not drive. Friends and family described Gumpenberger as friendly and easy-going, even though he did have past violent episodes. He was interviewing for a job in the morning at a firm were he was well thought of as capable and conscientious. Those that knew him could not believe he would be involved in violent crime.

The same could not be said of the 中国体彩官方appowner. Hupp was the last known person to see her business partner before she was brutally murdered. Hupp testified at the trial of the woman’s husband. That conviction was overturned when it was learned that Hupp became the beneficiary of a $150,000 life insurance policy on her parner just days before the murder. The man’s second trial resulted in an acquittal, which naturally shifted suspicions to Huff. Huff was also the last person to see her mother before her body was found beneath her third floor balcony. Now, Huff had killed a disabled man with 900 dollars in his pocket and a note with the name of the man she had tried to implicate.

After a nearly two week investigation, police arrested Huff, charging her with 1st degree premeditated murder. She was said to have lured Gumpenberger to her house and planting the note and money to again frame her dead business partner’s husband. GPS records from her phone show her travelling to Gumpenberger’s apartment and returning to her house minutes before the shooting. While in police custody, she used a ballpoint pen to stab herself several times. Huff was hospitalized in stable condition and remains held on a 2 million dollar bond.

All this is to illustrate the problems police have when responding to a self-defense shooting. The crime scene is a confusing mess of evidence and witness claims. There’s also a whole range of forensic evidence which needs to be uncovered. Careful, exacting, time-consuming police work, analysis and deliberation is required. The police simply can not know what actually occurred immediately. In the past, we’ve been critical of the police for not quickly declaring an obvious self-defense shooting a “good-shoot.” With what we’ve learned, we’ll endeavour not to make that mistake again.

This situation also relates to Massad Ayoob’s teachings about the second fight for your life, the one that comes after the gunfight. Education, training and practice come into play here. Knowing what to say, how to act and interact with the police, and how to get assistance is essential; as Paul will surely agree.

A Sheriff Deputy Wants You To Be a Good Little Victim

Two men entered an Augusta, Georgia Subway restaurant one afternoon. Their worried the clerk, so she went to her purse and got her handgun. When one thug jumped the counter and the other struck the employee’s 14-year-old son on the head with a crowbar, she was forced to respond to the deadly situation with gunfire. Cornelius Lamar Harrison of Greensboro, North Carolina was hit in his left side, and was declared dead at a local hospital. His confederate was later arrested at a hotel in the midst of what was called a “medical episode.” Deputies eventually linked him to the Subway robbery and booked him for possession of methamphetamine, aggravated assault and felony murder. When fingerprinted, his real name and record were uncovered. Howard Maurice Harris had outstanding drug charges and, hardly unexpectedly, had violated his North Carolina probation.


This type of violent crime is unfortunately hardly unique. However, we hope the advice that Lieutenant Allan Rollins provided is one-of-a-kind. Discussing the above hold up, the good deputy stated that a victim should “Always cooperate, stand back put your hands up, make sure they know you are no threat to them. If you become the victim of a robbery, do not try anything out of the ordinary. You don’t want to put yourself in any more danger. Give them what they want, if they just want the cash register, let them have it. It’s only money. Most important part is to remain calm, get all the information you can.”

In the ugly real world, it’s unfortunately that the deputy’s advice could well get you killed. There is no guarantee that the criminals will not give in to violent impulses once the robbery is completed. As in this instance, unneeded violence is often part of the robbery, and once that line is crossed, violence often escalates. Death is unfortunately an increasing trend in modern crime. Lieutenant Rollins’ advice to always submit to the criminals ignores the very real positive lifesaving impact of the aggressive defenses we document each week. We urge our listeners to get the training that will allow them to recognize and respond to the criminal threat. “It’s only money,” <unquote> — unless it isn’t. Being a good, little victim can be deadly.


John – As a native of Greensboro, I will say that I do not know nor want to know Mr. Harrison.


Rob- there is a fantasy contract between the robber and the victim. “You give me money and I leave you alone.” The thief doesn’t have to obey the contract.


Rachel- the deputy’s advice would probably work if people were inherently good. I happen to believe they aren’t. Humanity has a sin problem. That belief informs my preparation for worst-case scenarios.

Gary –


Paul C – Despite the fact that this situation turned out as best as it could doesn’t mean that everything was done well. Having your gun on your body is going to increase your likelihood of success Also, when you start hearing “always” and “never,” time to find someone else to listen to…

Rob- will the robber be between you and your gun?

John – Going to the advice given, it ignores the fact that some criminals will kill their robbery victims so that they cannot testify or ID them.

Rob- People have a fantasy that they can talk the robber out of violence. The fantasy that violence happens to someone else, but not to them because you are a nice person.

talks about this fantasy.


Geezers Rock!
A 91-year-old got an uncomfortable feeling when crossing a Detroit-area Rite Aid parking lot: a much younger man was following him. More worrisome, his shadow was approaching and behaving erratically. As he continued to approach, the elder man warned that he had a concealed carry permit. When the erratic fellow suddenly pointed an object at him, the senior fired, striking the man in the neck.

The youngster ran off, and police found him collapsed in a Petco parking lot across the street. He was treated at the local hospital and later arrested. Police are asking anyone with information on the incident to contact them.

Paul C – Trust your gut!

We are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive gun use segment is intended as information NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.


We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com Please take a minute and share them with a friend.



No 6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close


Voice mail #1


Text message #1


Desantis Nemesis: works great if it’s the exact model for your gun. I pocket carry S&W bodyguard with no laser. It fell out once. Holster was designed for laser



Paul C – Specific holster for your gun couldn’t agree more!

Rachel-and tighten it correctly for your gun, and test it

Gary –


Text message #2


Evening crew,


I was wondering if you’re involved in an auto accident, what is the general procedure for first responders when they find a firearm in the vehicle?


What would I need to do to get my firearm back once I’m released from the hospital?

Thank you


  1. S. I look forward to checking out some of the podcast on the new network.


Rachel- From my medic sister: “We can give it to security, cop, or a commander, or sometimes they’ll have a family member or friend come pick it up before we transport.”



Text message #3


On episode 386 in the listener feedback section Paul was commenting about wild animals as it relates to self protection and one’s gun choice. He mentioned alligators and crocodiles. I believe it was Rob who chimed in, chuckled, and said, “That’s the other hemisphere, Buddy,” relating to Paul’s mention of crocodiles.

I just wanted to let Rob and the others know that there’s a population of crocodiles in Florida. The numbers are small compared to alligators, and they are a protected species there.

I love the podcast. Keep up the great work.



Rob- Thank you for the zoological correction, Chris.


Listener e-mail discussion


On a previous episode you discussed some West Virginia colleges making firearms off limits even though the state has constitutional carry. Rachel mentioned in passing that she felt that a PRIVATE university should be allowed to make such a policy. Of course I know she’d prefer that they didn’t. Let me state that I know Rachel is among the staunchest of gun rights advocates as am I. I also find myself agreeing with her the VAST majority of the time when she voices an opinion (even her views about Trump, but I’ll save that for another email.)

I just thought the topic of privately owned businesses posting their premises as off limits should be explored further.

Like Rachel I also live in Texas. 30.06 & 30.07 signs which ban concealed and open carry respectively carry the force of law. I often hear some site “private property rights” when they say they support such a private business ban.

I think it’s worth pointing out the difference between private property, i.e. One’s 中国体彩官方app, and private property that is open for public use. The latter is subject to MUCH more regulation.

For instance, in the town where I live smoking is not allowed in any public business. That is a city ordinance. A business owner cannot sit in a chair that he bought, in a building he owns, on a plot of land that he owns if he is open to the public. The same business owner cannot deny service to someone based on race, creed, religion, etc. That is covered by federal law. He also must provide parking and ramp access to his building for those who are disabled. There are also ample OSHA regulations he must follow.

I’m not particularly fond or government regulation, and I do feel that we are over-regulated as a society. The idea behind the regulations I mentioned seems to be that they’re needed for the safety and well-being of the customers and employees. If one follows that logic, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to have a discussion about proposing laws that prevent privately owned businesses from denying its patrons and employees their constitutional rights to carry a firearm for self-protection just because he or she enters the premises of said business.

Now if one doesn’t support such a proposal because he or she also thinks the other regulations are not necessary or are too burdensome for the business, I could at least respect that position because I feel that person is being consistent. If, however, one supports the idea that a business open to the public must adhere to a set of regulations for public safety; I think it’s reasonable to say a person’s constitutional rights don’t end just because a business owner would like to deny them inside his or her business.

I know we still have a ways to go, but I hope getting this discussion started could get us in that direction. I do like the Senator Hall of Texas bill idea that copies the new Tennessee model of holding anti gun businesses responsible for possible injuries or deaths from mass shooting or other crimes that happen at the business.

p.s. I love the show and appreciate everything all the hosts do. Paul, I’m very happy that you were ultimately vindicated after that nightmare event you suffered in Nebraska. Thank you for telling your story on Bob Mayne’s podcast. Your experience has certainly taught me a few things as well as reinforced some things I already knew.

Chris (feel free to use my first name on the air)


Rachel- I agree with your logic. If I supported governmental regulations of businesses and thought they were needed for the safety and well-being of customers and employees, then it would not be unreasonable to want the government to regulate against gun-free zones in businesses. However, I do NOT support governmental regulation of businesses. I believe in personal liberty, and that includes other people’s right to be stupid. So, as much as I’d personally love to be able to carry everywhere, in order to be consistent, I have to support the business owner’s right to post 30.06 and 30.07. I AM glad we have a specific sign (i.e., no-gun signs don’t have force of law). And, I would absolutely support the bill making them liable for harm when they disarm us.


Rob- I think of “gun-free” zones as a public nuisance. Like a landowner leaving an abandoned well or pond on their property. You can’t wave liability as you expose your customers to the increased risk you created. How do I rationalize my position with businesses that deliberately expose the customers to risk.. Like amusement parks and sport activities.




Hey polite society crew,

I was listening to your recent podcast, 386, where you were discussing Gary Johnson’s running mate & his anti gun stance. I haven’t followed the libertarian party very much & think that they don’t stand a chance at winning & will only draw votes away from Trump. It’s unfortunate that they are taking a similar stance on guns. Like all of you, I think the 2nd amendment is crucial in this election.

Yesterday, Rush Limbaugh referenced an article that took a look at voters in Pennsylvania. Here is the link:
I wonder if this may be the case around the country中国体彩官方app? I travel many parts of NY state, north of Westchester county for my job. I can say that I definitely see more Trump signs than Hillary signs. That being said, NY City is extremely liberal. Hopefully, Trump can pull more of the 中国体彩官方app town crowd his way.

I enjoy the podcast & look forward to them each week. Keep up the good work.


Rob- The purple states will decide this election.

John – New York State is like Illinois – its largest city dominates policy in that state.




Greetings all,

The reason you don’t want to use your hollow point defensive rounds on animals, given a choice, is as stated. You need penetration. Most handgun defense ammo is a compromise. You need enough penetration but not too much. Since there is a limited amount of energy available they design the bullet to expand, which takes some energy, a specific amount to give the needed penetration. A varmint bullet is designed for little penetration but a lot of expansion. Defensive bullets are just too fragile for tougher beasts.


If I’m carrying a .357 mag, for defense I’d use a 125gr HP. If hunting depending on the animal, I’d up it to 158gr HP or even a soft point for its tougher construction and deeper penetration. If using a carbine in that caliber I’d either go to a soft point or even better, a heavier hard cast depending on what I was hunting. The 125gr, which is a fantastic man stopper would tend to leave a shallow devastating wound on even a deer and might even just PO a hog.


As to the polls, don’t forget they can be just as biased as the news media. I’d take little credence in polls. I suspect they are being designed and published to create doubt in the minds of those not supporting Hillary.



Paul C – Good summary.

John – Check who is doing the poll and who they tend to do polls for such as Public Policy Polling does for Democrats.



I sent you guys an email last week stating I thought the best case was Johnson could get in the debates and maybe have a really long shot at making it a three way race. I didn’t like his VP pick at all, but thought maybe we changed his views. I was wrong, he’s still a gun grabbing liberal piece of garbage.


Guess i’ll vote for Trump, but he has no chance.


We’re just screwed, really, really screwed!


Secession anyone???


Rachel- consider harnessing the power of the protest vote. Candidates, campaigns, and Political parties look carefully at vote numbers. They calculate to determine how many people voted for their candidate, how many people voted against, and how many people DID NOT vote at all. This helps them know how much of their party they have alienated. If they hear massive protests against their candidate but they see the votes show up, they turn a deaf ear to the complaints. They get the message that people will still hold their nose and vote for a candidate even if they hate him that much. If they see they actually lose votes – i.e. there are people in their party who came to teh polls but refused to vote for their guy, they will be much more careful whom they push for nomination next time around.


And yeah, after Brexit, we’re all now talking about Texit. Feel free to come join.


Rob- I think the race is close.


Paul – I think that Trump absolutely has a chance. I want to bring up again that at this point Bush sr trailed Dukakis by 17 points in August. Bush won that one by a landslide.



Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts you want to mention?


Rob- I wrote about political activism at the local level. Really local. We are in the best position to end gun free zones in our schools and hospitals. This is how you get politically effective.. At five minutes a day for a week. It is so simple you can do it before coffee. My articles are up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland, and at John, tell us what’s new at your blog only guns and money.


John- I’ve done a few posts since our last podcast. One that might interest any Clint Eastwood Dirty Harry fan is the . It was the pistol used by Dirty Harry in 1983’s Sudden Impact. It fired the auto pistol equivalent of the .44 Mag cartridge. I don’t know how much it will cost nor if they will have solved many of the original pistol’s jamming problems but it is interesting.


That and more is at


Rob- velociraptors beware.

Paul C – You can load that with whatever you want from hollow points to hard cast!


Paul L- We would like to thank Charlie Foxtrot for writing up show notes for us. Even though you don’t hear him on the air he is certainly part of what you do hear. Look at his blog at


Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. I’d like to thank Kathy Jackson and Paul Carlson for joining us today. So for Charlie Foxtrot, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)


Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Rachel: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.


Episode 386 – I Still Shot You

Full Episode Download:

1- Open and Personal News Segment

2- News Segment 1

3 News Segment 2

4- Interview Segment 1: Guest Bob Mayne

5- Rant

6- DGU Segment:

6- Email and Show Close:

1- Introduction



Paul: Welcome中国体彩官方app to the polite society podcast sponsored by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on August 14, 2016. I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we talk about Law Enforcement Officers who definitely need more training.

John- I’m John Richardson and we talk with firearms instructor Bob Mayne.

Rachel: I’m Rachel Malone, and we talk about Kathy Jackson’s instructor development course!

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and we have a defensive gun use story where a Florida man had a bout of road rage, that cost him his life. So Climb aboard!

Rachel: strap in

John: and hang on!

Paul: episode 386 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.


Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)


Rob- I carried every day. Pants on, Gun on. I interviewed podcaster and firearms instructor Bob Mayne on my I got in some good exercise. How about you, John?


John- … What I did in guns this week other than carry is going to sound a bit strange but bear with me. I bought a bowling ball for $1.50 at a church yard sale. Bowling ball you say? Yep. I bought it because and mount a vise on it. This will give me a and to use when I work on my guns. Or assemble another AR.


Gary- ….

Rachel- Paul/Susan – Cornered Cat Instructor development class. 1) You want me to do WHAT with my right hand when I am shooting left handed? 2) Handgun retention “I still shot you” 3) Cornered Cat class.


Rob- Can we start a yelling at TV exercise program?


  • If you instruct or coach, should you come to Kathy Jackson’s instructor development class? (Can you..)
  • How it has already changed me
    • Demo for students instead of just explaining
    • Gauge progress in awareness, not achievement
    • Book: Inner Game of Tennis – avoid overthinking, have confidence and repeatable results under pressure


Gary – Are we going to discuss the safety rules post on FB on air?



2- News 1-

County Prosecutor Negligently Discharges his Ruger 9mm at restaurant


his firearm while at the Texas Roadhouse in Anderson, Indiana. Reports say that initially he didn’t know what the sound was and that he thought it was an “electrical explosion”. After hearing the shot, restaurant patron Aaron Taffner went to his vehicle to get his own gun, as he was walking back into the restaurant he saw Mr. Cummings walking out the door with a large hole in his shorts pocket.


After police arrived, they determined that it was simply an accident and they closed the case with no charges being filed.


When interviewed, Prosecutor Cummings said Quote “I’ve been using firearms professionally for 36 years and nothing like that has ever happened before. I assume what happened is that putting it in and out of my pocket WITHOUT A HOLSTER caused the safety to disengage.” End quote Mr. Cummings also stated that the weapon was a gift from his daughter and he believes that the pistol is properly registered in her name.


Properly registered? Indiana does not have gun registration and as a prosecutor Mr. Cummings ought to know the law of his state!


What is Mr. Cumming’s first plan of action after this incident? He says that he is going to have the GUN checked out by a gunsmith. He doesn’t blame himself for not properly carrying his gun, he blames the object. We all have a responsibility to the future of gun ownership to be better than this, to know the law, to know our weapon and to know that this “thing” is just an object. It is about the PERSON in control of it, not the gun.


Mr. Cummings, GET A HOLSTER!


Rachel- It is stories like this one that that made people like me think it was stupid and dangerous to carry a gun. But it’s people like John Lott and alternative media like Polite Society Podcast who publish truth. I’m so glad the truth was out there when I went looking for it.


Rob- I am not a county prosecutor and I wonder what would have happened if I had a negligent discharge in a restaurant bathroom.

Paul – It takes more than taking the safety off.


Librarian Killed In Police Training Exercise

. She died from a single gun shot wound while participating in a Punta Gorda, Florida Police Department force-on-force training event. While police officials termed the shooting “accidental”, it was in fact “negligent” as those in charge failed to confirm that there were no live rounds in any of the training pistols. They were supposed to be loaded with simunition rounds for this shoot-don’t shoot scenario. The Florida Dept of Law Enforcement is investigating the incident at the request of Police Chief Tom Lewis.


Rob- this isn’t the first time we’ve seen an accident like this. We see firearms that are not intended to be used in the exercise inside the training area. We see non participants bring a gun into the training area. The area has to be kept clear of weapons and every one entering the area has to be screened.


John – This incident took place with people who participated in something affiliated with their Citizens Academy. The question needs to be asked why they needed to do force on force training as they were not sworn officers.


Congressman wants to extend the FBI background check timeline

Currently, by law, the FBI has up to three days to complete a background check on potential gun buyers. After three days, the dealer has the discretion to complete the sale if they so choose. Rep. James Clyburn, Democrat of South Carolina, wants to change this. He is proposing a bill that would allow the FBI to have up to 28 days or until the background check is complete before green-lighting a gun sale.


Representative Clyburn stated Quote “Congress must pass my bill, the Background Check Completion Act, to close the Charleston loophole and keep dangerous weapons out of the hands of people the law already says should not own them. The policy should be very simple; no check, no sale.” End quote.


Clyburn’s reference to the “Charleston loophole” once again demonstrates the classic leftist approach of never let a good crisis go to waste. Referring to the incident where a shooter murdered nine churchgoers, the killer was sold a gun after he surpassed the three-day timeline on the FBI NICS check without a denial from the Bureau. It was found after the killings that he had a criminal history including a drug charge that would have disqualified him from purchasing the firearm used in his heinous crime.


Mr. Clyburn also says we need “some moderation” when it comes to the Second Amendment.


Rob- I recently had to wait a half hour for my NICS check to go through. We almost had to give up and try another day. That reminded me that all honest gun owners are dependent on the NICS system and the politicians who control it. Honest gun owners can be stopped by politicians, but not criminals. Criminals buy their guns criminally, so all a corrupt politician has to do is stop background checks and he has disarmed the honest people. Does that frighten anyone else?


John- Every time something like this is proposed, we need to send letters, faxes, and emails to our Senators and Representatives. We should follow that up with a call.


Paul – I know where he can put his moderation. Since the 1930s we have had moderation and look where we are now.

Gary –

Most mass murderers passed their background checks.



Anyone heading to West Liberty University in West Virginia will need to leave their firearms behind. It doesn’t matter if they are a licensed concealed carrier or if they have a shotgun behind the seat of the pickup. The university’s Board of Governors voted unanimously Wednesday for a ban on firearms on campus. That ban violates the constitutional carry law passed last year. There is a 30 day comment period for the planned new policy.


Other nearby colleges, including West Virginia University, Marshall University, and Fairmont State University, all have similar gun bans on the books.


Rob- Why do university professors and administrators think they are special? The students and delivery drivers who carry off campus all the time are not a danger on campus.. Except to the delicate psyche of liberal professors who want to be helpless.


Gary- They are not thinking. They are playing politics with students lives. John Lott is an expert. John Benner is an expert on defending schools. We and our listeners are nothing more than well informed citizens. We know this is a bad idea. It is obvious. So would the school administrators.. if they cared to look. They don’t want to know the facts. A bunch of elite statist professors complained to their management. Now their management is trying to break the law to please the faculty. What burns me up is that the West Virginia citizens will pay their legal bills.


Rachel- Campus Carry went into effect in Texas a couple weeks ago. Have we discussed the story where all of UT Austin became an uncontrollable raging firefight and thousands were murdered? Oh wait, that was just in the liberals’ irrational nightmares. That having been said…..I do believe a private university should have the right to restrict or ban carry. I also believe that students (and faculty) should stand up for what they believe. If they want gun control, go to the universities that ban guns (and leave Texas, thankyouverymuch). If you believe in gun freedom and personal responsibility, intentionally select a school that upholds the right to defend yourself. Sometimes standing up for our rights results in personal sacrifice. We are inconvenienced. It costs more. It’s trouble. YES it’s trouble to stand up for freedom. How do you think our country中国体彩官方app began? Was it worth it to them? Is it worth it to you?


Rob- Sure, a private landowner can declare a gun free zone sign, and the security check-point to enforce it.

John – Shannon Watt’s daughter goes or did go to a school that allows campus carry. Hypocrisy much?


Petition fights California gun grab

There is a gun culture in California, and it is A businessman from conservative Carlsbad organized a petition drive to restore the right to keep and bear arms in California. He circulated the petition online and at gun stores statewide. He needs 365,000 signatures by Sept. 29.


The anti-rights legislation included mandatory background checks before an ammo purchase, a new state database of ammunition buyers, banning semi-automatic rifles with detachable magazines, outlaws magazines holding more than 10 cartridges, and prohibits loaning a firearm to a close family member.


Lisa Gunther is the owner of Gunther Guns in Carlsbad. She said, “These anti-gun bills passed but have not gone into effect yet. We are seeing an uptick in purchases of rifles with bullet buttons since they will be banned in 2017. New buyers are coming out to purchase shotguns and handguns before the lawmakers decide to ban those, too. People are purchasing more ammunition due to future ammo background checks on the horizon.”


“These outrageous and unconstitutional bills that passed the California legislature should alarm Californians enough to get out to vote this November. If we lose the Second Amendment, which amendment is next? Think about that. Even if you don’t own guns, your liberty is being eroded.”


The is in our show notes.


Rob- I have many friends in california. They show me a lot of people at their petition drive.


This is tragic. We’ve commented on the repeated records set by the murderous drug gangs in Chicago. The city again set a record last week with over 100 people shot in seven days. In one day, there were 19 separate attacks resulting in 9 murders. We are watching failed Socialist policies take their toll on the citizens of Chicago. The staff of the polite society podcast is sorry for them.. And how they voted to bring this on themselves. Let us all learn from their mistakes even if they can not.


Gary- We talked about mass transit in Chicago being a rolling “gun free zone”. Well there were two attacks by armed robbers on the elevated trains last week. The politicians won’t learn.


John – I’d be very interested to see a map of these shootings. Are they all in the Gold Coast or is in the South Side or other poor neighborhoods?



Texas Business Owners May Be Liable For Gun-Free Zone Shootings

Texas is already gearing up for the 2017 legislative session, and gun rights will no doubt be a major issue again. Senator Bob Hall is addressing the issue of liability for business owners who ban carry. In Texas, business owners can prohibit license-holders from carrying on their property by posting a 30.06 and/or 30.07 sign. Senator Hall wants to make those businesses liable for “any harm that befalls patrons as a result of being deprived of his or her weapon.”


Hall recognizes that criminals target gun-free zones. He stated, “Businesses that establish themselves as ‘gun-free’ provide a guaranteed path of least resistance for terrorists and psychopathic murderers by ensuring that all of the law-abiding patrons in their establishment, including those licensed to carry a firearm, have surrendered their right of self-defense at the door.” Senator Hall wants to motivate businesses to allow carry. He is optimistic about legislative support for this proposal.


Rachel-In my opinion, this is a very good way of upholding private property rights as well as the right and responsibility of personal protection. It’s a great way of keeping businesses from flippantly throwing up 30.06 and 30.07 signs and claiming they do it “for liability.” If you live in Texas and want to help support this bill, please shoot me an email or text and I will be sure you are on my legislative alert list. rachel@politicsandguns or 512-937-3006


Kim Rhode Medals


One last new item – at the Rio Olympics. She has now won a medal in six consecutive games which is a record for the Summer Olympics. Kim is not only a great athlete but is also a Second Amendment stalwart. Congrats to Kim on her win. She is a great role model and a great representative of the United States.


Rob- Kim lives in Los Angeles. She lives with abusive gun laws every day.


John – I will also say Kim has only a few sponsors from the gun industry. She doesn’t get the big money.


Rob- Can you say political correctness.. in our board rooms.


Gun Quotes- Bring a gun to a gunfight. An armed man will kill an unarmed man with monotonous regularity. Although it is infrequent, it is not the odds of needing a gun that move you to be armed. It is the stakes of needing one and not having it close at hand. –Col Jeff Cooper


Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest Bob Mayne

3- Interview 1 -Bob Mayne


4- Rant – I thought that libertarian meant that you stood for personal liberty.


Rather than have a second interview this week I wanted to take a little bit of time and talk about the presidential election again. If you have heard enough of this please feel free to go on to the next segment and listen to the DGU’s but I hope that you don’t. I hope that you pay attention. I hope that you pay attention because I didn’t and it surprised me. I pride myself on knowing politics. I have spent most of my adult life following politics and participating in the process.


As many of you know I have withheld my support of Donald Trump, stating that I wasn’t ready to say that I was going to vote for him. That there were things that concerned me, and I honestly believed that there was a possible way that Johnson could be successful in a 3rd party run for the White House.


Then yesterday happened. As you all know I drive truck for a living. I was just coming off my 10 hour break and getting ready to drive when Rob posted to our staff page on Facebook that William Weld had made some anti gun comments that were available on YouTube.


I had a few minutes before I had to stick the truck in gear so I loaded up the video and forwarded to where Rob said that the comments were. Boy was he right. The Vice-Presidential nominee for the Libertarian party said that he wanted a 5 round limit on rifles and that handguns were worse.


As I stated a few weeks ago I am a 1 issue voter. I vote 2nd Amendment freedom all up and down the ballot no matter the party. If you trust me to have a gun then you trust me with my own money generally, you trust me to be smart enough to run my own affairs without government sticking their nose in where it doesn’t belong. Therefore as a 1 issue voter it breaks my heart to say that I cannot support the Libertarian party in this year’s election. The reason may surprise you. It’s not because of Weld’s support of gun control directly, although that does play a part.


It’s because Johnson SHOULD HAVE KNOWN that this was there. Weld proposed some of the strictest gun control laws in the nation as the Governor of Massachusetts. At the very least there should have been several hours of sit down interviews with the potential VP candidate and in this election season guns HAD to be brought up. I thought that like Trump, who had stated that he supported gun control in the past that Weld had changed his mind and now supported our right to keep and bear arms as stated in the bill of rights. Unfortunately now several media outlets have interviewed Weld, and he has again doubled down on his statements.


Therefore Johnson had to know and not care that the one man that would be a “heartbeat from the presidency” only supported “hunting” arms. That is a no go for me.


So this year I once again am going to hold my nose and vote for a Republican for the top federal office. While I don’t like Trump I will support him and will give every ounce of my effort and every bit of my voice to elect him and once he is in office I will give the same effort and voice to make CERTAIN that he keeps our 2nd amendment rights in the forefront of his mind during his elected term in office.


Rachel-Paul, I am so glad that you preach so strongly that our job is not done once we vote. The important part, whoever we vote for and whoever wins, is that we hold elected officials accountable. The best officeholder can fall if we fail in this; and the worst officeholder can be held in check if we do our job. Let’s all commit to doing our job to the best of our abilities – whatever that means for each one of us. One of my favorite quotations: “A man has done less than he ought until he does all that he can.”

Rob- Men do less than they ought, unless they do all they can. Thomas Carlyle, (a Scottish philosopher, satirical writer, essayist, historian and teacher.)


5- DGUs


You Can’t – Temporarily – Fix Stupid

A Florida man had at least two bouts of violent . His first cost him 11 years in prison – the second… his life. Gary Lynn Durham, 40, died on a Plant City street after a driving confrontation. But, don’t shed too many tears for Mr. Durham, as 15 years ago he murdered a man in a similar road-rage incident. This time it was different; his chosen victim had a self-defense firearm.

Durham, served 11 years in prison for a 2001 road-rage killing. Because of his extensive criminal record, he could have been sentenced to 30 years for snuffing out the life of a 48-year-old husband and father. However, he benefited from the court’s mercy. The judge thoughtfully included 300 hours of community service and issued orders to seek psychological and drug evaluations and anger management counseling. None of that seemed to help, as just a short time after he was paroled, Durham attacked another driver.


After a minor incident on the street, Durham used his truck to force the other vehicle to stop, and jumped out to confront the driver. The other man got out of his car (not a good idea) and words were exchanged. As the argument escalated out of control, the man pulled his weapon and shot severals times, hitting Durham once. Deputies arrived to find the apparent victim performing CPR on his former opponent. The surviving driver is cooperating with police and has been questioned and released. As of yet, no charges have been filed. The investigation is continuing and the State’s Attorney’s office will provide the final determination.


All this is to emphasize the necessity of carrying every day, everywhere. POGO. But, be mindful of your situation – we would recommend NEVER leaving the safety of your vehicle in a confrontation. You never know when you’ll meet another violent killer released by the legal system.

We will note that only ONE of the many media sources we used in preparing this DGU the murder Durham committed 15 years ago. The suppression of that important fact is interesting – and troubling. Without too thick of a tin-foil hat, we could postulate the media’s desire to make Durham more sympathetic and cast doubt on the necessity of the shooting, or even perhaps hide the leniency of the legal system. Who knows? But it is a window on the media’s biases in self defense shootings.


Rob- This is another example where thinking about the event ahead of time helps us make good decisions when we don’t have time to think.




911 Operator Tells Grandmother to Disarm.
“She kept saying; ‘Put the gun down! Put the gun down! And I said ‘I’ll put the gun down !’“ Those were the words of an 80-year-old convalescing grandmother facing several 中国体彩官方app-invaders. She was not squawking at the criminals, but at a 911 operator, who was ordering her to disarm.


N.J. Logan was upstairs in her Tampa Bay area 中国体彩官方app recovering from hip replacement surgery when she heard a door being kicked in. The woman was alone in the house: her husband was out playing bridge with friends. “I don’t know what was going on in my mind. Honestly all I wanted was my gun,” Logan said. Once it was in hand, the 6 million dollar gal advanced on the enemy. “I was probably running down the stairs with my new hip, so to speak.” All the while threatening – promising – to shoot the bad guys.

Outmatched, the burglars retreated, and Logan dialed 911. The operator ordered Logan to put down her gun, which she colorfully declined to do until it was safe. Police arrived to find a broken glass door and a slashed screen and no suspects. Holmes Beach Police Chief William Tokajer agreed that with the increasing amount of 中国体彩官方app-invasions in the area, it was good Logan kept a gun in her 中国体彩官方app.

What the police haven’t answered is why the 911 operator ordered the 中国体彩官方appowner to disarm herself. We will remind our listeners of the advisability of being armed, especially if crooks are known to be in the area. The 911 operator was not a sworn officer, and way out of line with her orders. That doesn’t mean a victim should completely ignore a operator, they can serve as an essential link between the 中国体彩官方appowner and the arriving police. We would remind the operator it’s the victim’s sole duty to remain alive until the police arrive – and the best way to do that is with their gun.


Rob- Have you thought about what you will do if you call the police and they arrive.


From The City of Peace

And finally, comes a story from The City of Peace(TM) – aka: Chicago. In the sleepy suburb of Buffalo Grove, two masked men suddenly smashed down a front door. They came in armed with a large hunting knife, and stabbed the 中国体彩官方appowner multiple times. Three others were also stabbed in the melee, and the attackers even stooped to knifing the family’s German Shepherd.


The attacked stopped when the 中国体彩官方appowner was able to break free and grab his gun. He opened fire, driving the attackers away. Police later captured three suspects with a large bloodstained knife. In spite of that rather large, bloody clue, no charges have been filed as of the time of this report. The wounded 中国体彩官方app-owner was hospitalized, the other three were treated and released, and the Shep will thankfully survive it’s wounds.


Police have not suggested a motive for the attack, but have suggested it was not a random crime. It does seem very likely that four people — and a German Shepherd — would have been hacked to death but for the proper use of a firearm. A gun in anti-gun Chicagoland.


We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com Please take a minute and share them with a friend.




6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close


Text message #1


Don’t forget to mention wolves when talking about wild animals, coyotes also. They are hard on pets, just lost our shelty dog. She is missed! This track was at the end of our driveway. I may have small hands but that is huge.


Email # 1


I heard you mention last night that you were considering a Viridian laser for your carry gun.


I’ve been carrying a Viridian C5L on my carry piece (Steyr C9-A1) for several years now. I really like it – It’s very compact , the tac light is surprisingly bright, and the filter they put on the light spreads it out horizontally very evenly, so you get a wide fan-shaped beam that doesn’t waste light on the ceiling and floor. The green laser makes it just too easy to shoot in the dark – I took it out to the local outdoor range after dusk one day, and promptly went 中国体彩官方app after 2 magazines because it was just no fun without the challenge. During the day it’s much more visible than a red laser, but still hard to see in direct sunlight, so I turn it to the strobe function to flash the laser so it’s more visible. The light can be programmed to any combination of solid or flashing strobe or laser, which is a neat feature, though I find the strobing light to be disorienting to the shooter, though presumably more so to the target.


One thing to definitely look into is Viridian’s ECR function – It’s basically a magnetic switch, so if you activate your laser and holster, it turns off the laser, but it automatically re-activates when you draw. I love this feature, though because of my exotic choice of carry gun, I had to modify an existing kydex holster with a magnet and some J-B Weld to use it.


The only drawback I can see is that it’s much harder to get holsters for guns with lights and lasers, and it does add a not-insignificant amount of weight, so my marginally acceptable gun belt is a bit overtaxed.


Just thought I’d share my $0.02.


-Jake from Iowa


Email #2


Hello, brethren and sisters of the gun. I’ve recently found your podcast
and have been binging though the backlog. Great stuff.

I live in the Memphis Tennessee metro area. As you likely know, Memphis
is consistently at the top of cities with the highest violent crime
Lists. Nothing to be proud of, but hey – at least we have fantastic BBQ.
However, I’ve heard this is now a recipe free zone so I can’t share our
secrets with you

I’m writing about a news story you reported on in Episode 381. You spoke
of TN Bill SB1736, the TN anti-gun free zone law that went into effect
in July. Unfortunately, the fantastic version you discussed was amended
significantly before it was passed.

As originally proposed, the bill can be summarized as “if a property
owner posts, and a person who could otherwise carry is harmed as a
result of being prohibited from carrying, that person can take legal
action against the property owner.” It was an extremely clear bill that
stood very strongly in support of our 2A rights.

The bill was amended and gutted before signing. The entirety of the bill
was thrown out and replaced with a single clumsy paragraph that doesn’t
come close to meeting the intent of the original bill.

As I understand the final signed bill, it says “If a property owner can
legally post, and chooses not to post, they are immune from legal claims
resulting from not creating a gun free zone”. Hopefully, the amended
bill will incentivize more businesses to not post, but it does not
explicitly protect us from having our 2nd amendment rights chilled.

For reference, the original proposed bill:
The amended bill that was signed:
Lastly, in Tennessee if a business in Tennessee posts according to
specific signage requirements, that sign carries the force of law.
Violation is a misdemeanor with a $500 fine, and you will lose your
carry permit. However, the business has to post signage that meets very
specific requirements regarding size, location, and text. Last I looked
at Waffle House the posting did not comply. However, just for you, next
week I will make the sacrifice and venture into a couple houses of bacon
and syrup to see how they currently post.

Keep up the great podcast, and thanks for the entertainment and



Rachel-Thank you, Brian. In our news segment we covered a bill proposal in Texas that is actually based on the original TN bill. Here’s hoping it doesn’t get watered down….
Rob- they changed the “rules of the house” for our local waffle house, and Rachel, they have bacon.

John – I wish all states had uniform signage!

Email #3


Listening to episode 384, and the subject of a coyote encounter came up.
Do not forget they are a predator, and while a single animal may shy from human contact, a pack is a force multiplier, to our disadvantage.
Keep your heads up, eyes & ears open so they don’t get the drop on you.

Regards, The Armoured Porcupine
Rob- Thank you, Mr. P.


Email #4


With respect to my email from below, you asked me to get back to you regarding why I carry FMJ or LRN instead of hollow points. I was hoping to generate some discussion from the panel. But since you asked, I get that from some of the other podcasts out there, particularly the one whose dad was a famous sports writer. You can edit out the name if you want, but I believe I have heard Tom Gresham say to use FMJ or LRN for its, yes Rob, penetrating ability. Maybe not for coyotes, but for bigger predators such as bear and just plain mean critters such a feral hogs.

Any more thoughts?




Rachel-As Massad Ayoob would say, can you articulate? Research and prepare for your most likely threats.

RACHEL, can you look at the news story about west-virginia?

????? what story? Who wrote that?

John –


Email #5


First I wanted to thank you all for the great podcast, and the time you put into it. It’s probably the best out there covering the pro 2A fight.


I lean toward the libertarian/constitutional parties, and i’m a one issue voter. I actually changed from independent to republican this year hoping Paul could make a run at it, but he was out before we even voted in PA so I went with Cruz.


Now here we are, Trump, Johnson, or the devil/Clinton. I hate Trump, he acts like a spoiled little kid and I don’t think the believes in anything. With the supreme court hanging in the balance I was ready to vote for him…I think…maybe.


I hope I’m wrong but if you look at the electoral college map I don’t think Trump has any chance of winning. Clinton is going to win the swing states and the election. We will loose the supreme court and more of our rights.


Best case for me would be Johnson can get in the debates and pull another 15% from each side. Not much chance of the happening either though.


The whole system is corrupt to the core, and there’s simply not enough of us that actually care.


If we can’t change the system maybe we should change our focus to finding a way to get out of the system.



Rachel-something that has helped encourage me is to be involved at the local level. While I don’t think I can have much impact on a national level, I KNOW I can change things locally. I network with others, focus on fights that will give me the most payoff for my investment, and mostly ignore the rest. I’m OK with the fact that I can’t change the national system overnight. And I know, if it is going to be changed, it won’t be because one leader comes along to change it. It will be because enough small groups of local activists created change in their communities.


Rob- Liberty lovers need to send Rachel Bacon and chocolate so she stays active.


Be careful with the polls. No one knows how to predict this race. We’ve seen record high voter turnout for republican candidates. We’ve seen record low voter turn out from Democrat voters.


Rob- The pollsters don’t know how to extrapolate their small sample to the much larger election.


John – The NRA has started running anti-Hillary ads here in NC.


Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts you want to mention?


Rob- I wrote about liberal bigotry making it acceptable to I also wrote an article showing how you can It takes five minutes a day for one week. I can’t do it, but you can. My articles are up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland and at my blog,


John, tell us what’s new at your blog “Only guns and money”


John- who passed away on Wednesday. Patriot, founder of the Three % movement, and blogger Mike Vanderboegh died after a long bout with cancer. Mike is best remembered for his role in exposing the Obama Administration’s malfeasance in Operation Fast and Furious. While no one ever was charged with a crime – though they should have been – Attorney General Eric Holder was found in Contempt of Congress. While Mike could be cantankerous to say the least, he was always pleasant to me and wanted to talk more about his family than anything else. Mike leaves behind his wife Rosey and children Matt, Hannah, and Zoe. Mike was 64.


Rob- Mike loved to tell a story.


That and more is at


We would like to thank Charlie Foxtrot for writing up show notes for us. Even though you don’t hear him on the air he is certainly part of what you do hear. Look at his blog at


Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. I’d like to thank (Bob Mayne) for joining us today. (Rob won’t be with us next week.) So for Charlie Foxtrot, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, and Rob,


(Paul, stop talking now)

Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Rachel: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.


Episode 385 – While the Cats Away

Full Episode Download:

1- Open and Personal News Segment:

2- News Segment:

3- Interview Segment 1: Joseph LaJoy

4- Interview Segment 2: Joseph LaJoy Pt 2

5- Interview Dr. John Edeen of GRGO.us

6- DGU Segment:

7- Email and Show Close:

1- Introduction


Rob- Welcome中国体彩官方app to the polite society podcast sponsored by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Friday, August 5th, 2016. I’m Rob Morse.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty, and on tonight’s show we will talk with Joseph LaJoy about gunsmithing and state department ITAR regulations.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk with Dr. John Edeen about protecting our hospitals from criminals and crazies.

Cheryl: I’m guest host, Cheryl Todd, and we have news and commentary about more freedom coming to Texas.

Gary: In one of our defensive gun use stories, a young woman was robbed and held with a gun to her head. She fought back and won.. Because she had a gun and knew how to use it. .. so climb aboard.

Cheryl: strap in

John : and hang on!

Rob: episode 385 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.


Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

Rob: Paul, Susan and Rachel are at a Kathy Jackson training class today, So John, what have you been doing about self-defense this week?


John – Other than trying to stay armed where allowed, not too much. I usually spend at least two days a week working in a hospital where guns are forbidden and the security force is unarmed. That makes it hard. I also had to spend two days at a company conference which was interesting but certainly not gun related. Speaking of conferences, I have made my hotel and plane reservations for GRPC.


I did pick up a new set of reloading dies for when I finally get my bench set up. Now if I only had a basement set up like our own Charlie Foxtrot I’d be in reloading and gunsmithing heaven!



Cheryl Todd- .

Rob- I carried every day. I made flight and hotel reservations for the gun rights policy conference in Tampa. I was listening to some training podcasts and I was surprised at how little we can learn at one time.



Gary- MAG 40 in June 2017. Please email Susan@ad7.8f3.myftpupload.com for class info and to reserve seats. We will be back with news about repealing gun control in Texas after this break.



2- News 1


Gary- Texas Campus Carry

Congratulations to the state of Texas, to it’s citizens and college students. Campus carry of a handgun is now legal in the Lone Star State. And the right to self-defense is recognized in some of the state’s most unlikely institutions as of August 1st. While there are still some restricted areas where concealed carry is not allowed, such as sports arenas and chemical laboratories. The potential that a criminal may choose an armed (quote) “victim” will likely curb the number of violent encounters on campus. As author and economist Dr. John Lott has demonstrated, more guns really do equal less crime.


Licensed concealed carry is now allowed in campus parking lots, parking garages, outdoor walkways, and inside school buildings. Universities may designate certain areas as Gun Free Zones, so watch for the 306 signs. This new legislation applies to 4 year colleges. It will apply to two year junior colleges in September of next year.


Rob- Some of the college administrators and faculty tried to be clever. They tried to make gun-free zones out of some of the places students were required to go. The Texas Attorney General said their restrictions violate the law. Some of the academics are flush with their display of anti- gun bigotry and values signaling.


John – Anti’s were making a big deal over the fact that it started on the anniversary of the UT Belltower Shooting in 1966. What they forgot to say, it was students with their deer rifles who provided suppressing fire for the cops so they could get up in the tower to kill the sniper.


Cheryl- rape rate should fall.



John- Someone messed with Texas..and got sued

Still in Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton sued the Austin municipal government for posting signs against open carry. Most of the anti-rights bigots have an attitude of catch me if you can, but this suit has teeth in the form of daily fines that increase rapidly.


The lawsuit claims Austin illegally posted city hall. The city says that city hall is a court building.. Without a courtroom. The Attorney General’s couldn’t find a court or office utilized by a government court within the city hall building. The city faces fines of $1,000-$1,500 per day for the first offence, and 10 thousand a day for repeat violations.


Rob- Well that should get their attention.. And the attention of the Austin taxpayers who are being abused.

Cheryl -Missouri Constitutional Carry

In other state’s news Missouri’s Governor Jay Nixon vetoed the bill that passed both the state house and senate which would allow Missourians to conceal carry a firearm without a state issued permit. Opponents of the bill, including some from within the pro-gun community, say that concealed weapons should be carried by trained and qualified citizens. At the time of the Democrat governor’s veto, Republican lawmakers vowed to override the veto in September. It should be noted that Missouri already has allowances for the open carry of firearms without a permit. If you live in the state of Missouri, contact your representatives and state senators to let them know how you feel about this legislation and the possible upcoming veto override vote.

Do criminals follow any gun laws?

John – CF made the point that many politicians in MO brag on their NRA ratings.

Cheryl – solving a problem that doesn’t exist


Rob- ATF Caught with illegal firearm purchase records

According to the US Government Accountability Office (GAO for short), the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives has once again violated regulations by maintaining records of sales of multiple firearms. FFLs are required by statute to report to ATF the sale of two or more handguns to the same purchaser within five consecutive business days. The ATF is supposed to keep these records for two years after which they are required to remove any identifying customer data if the firearms have not been used during the commission of a crime. This is not the first time that the government has failed to properly destroy these records. The GAO reported the same issue in 1996, the 2016 report shows that the ATF is at least in part placing the blame on the computer database system that they use. A majority of the found records are from FFL dealers that are no longer in business. According to the GAO, firearms dealers can elect to voluntarily provide these records rather than have the ATF contact them for individual firearm tracking.


There is a congressional mandate that requires that approved purchaser information is to be destroyed within twenty-four hours. This has been included in the appropriations bills funding the Department of Justice to prevent over reaches by the ATF and the FBI. But once again, the rules do not apply to the rule makers.


Cheryl- You can be sued into bankruptcy for a small violation, say of the patient protection act. My personal data has been stolen from government servers. And each time this happens, a government official faces no penalties for misconduct. When has a government official lost their job and their pension? We have smart listeners, let us know if you find the examples I missed.


Gary- Chicago shows that Failing Cities are Dangerous

Last month was the “deadliest July in 10 years” for heavily gun-controlled Chicago: Sixty-five individuals were shot and killed. That isn’t an all time record, but it matches the murder rate set in July of 2006. It looks like 2016 will be far deadlier than 2015.


Police Superintendent Eddie Johnson tried to abate the media criticism from the July death numbers by pointing out that they are at least better than the numbers for June, “when 72 homicides were reported.”


Comments? Rob

John – no gang suppression.


John- The Chicago Tribune reported a total of 2,395 shooting victims so far in 2016. We see this violence in spite of the city’s bigoted “assault weapons” ban, their “violence tax,” their strict rules on acquiring handguns, and micro-management of the number of gun stores. Gun control is a distraction from the failed economic and social policies of Chicago politicians.


Rob- I’m angry at Chicago politicians. The blood of innocents is real. It isn’t a political talking point.


Rob- Is the Chicago media helping the politicians promote their anti-gun bigotry?


Cheryl-Nevada Sheriffs Give Bloomberg the Cold Shoulder.

Most Nevada Sheriffs came out against the Bloomberg-funded background check ballot initiative. “Any bill that does not address mental health, which I believe to be the core cause of the violence we’ve had across the country中国体彩官方app, does not meet my expectations,” said , sheriff in Carson City. “Mental health has to be addressed.”


Sheriff in Nye County said she believed the initiative chips away at Second Amendment rights. “It merely places more restrictions on good people, will make it more difficult, and incur unnecessary costs for law-abiding citizens to manage their personal property,” she said.


A yes vote would require background checks through a licensed gun dealer when firearms change hands, except for temporary transfers of a weapon while hunting or target shooting, for immediate self-defense, and transfers between immediate family members. For example, you and your live in girlfriend could not touch each others guns.. Even if you both have a concealed carry licenses. You could not let your sister in law touch your firearms. There is not temporary provision for transfer. A licensed dealer would be allowed to charge a fee for a background check.


Rob- I’m still trying to find out if the law applies to air-rifles. The real problem is that criminals get their guns criminally.

Gary- The real problem is that too many voters surf headlines rather than study the proposals.

John- Bloomberg dropped four million dollars to promote this initiative. He will flood the uniformed voters with feel-good campaign promises. That said, I think we need to make sure the unions and casinos understand what will happen if this passes – the SHOT Show should and must move out of LV.


Cheryl – has anyone talked to the NSSF about the SHOT show angle?

The contact information for NSSF is here=>


John- Gun Quotes- I could never be a conspiracy theorist. Conspiracy theorists believe in government competence. Miguel Gonzalez

Miguel is from Venezuela, and writes Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guests Joseph La Joy and Dr John Edeen.



3- Interview 1 Joseph LaJoy –

Twist rate

ITAR restrictions now applied to gunsmiths –

Eye dominance. Sight focus or target focus.



Be careful If you improve your glasses you may need to register with ITAR for improving your accuracy.

John – Interesting on women and x-dom. What do you think about blacking out the the rear dots with a Sharpie?


4- Interview 2 7:15 John Edeen, In the Crosshairs: Are Our Hospitals Targets for Terrorist Attacks?

History of terrorism


Hospitals are already sites for workplace violence

Hospitals are frequent targets for terrorism

Rob- John, most americans think terrorism doesn’t happen since they ignored it. Politicians abet their ignorance.

Types of attacks

John, isn’t a hospital also the ideal structure for a distributed defense?

Cheryl –

Gary – At the NRAAM, Lt Col Grossman warned about Hospital and daycare and elementary school attacks. Frightening.

Rob- John, money talks, and some corporate risk analyst told the hospital administrator that he has to sacrifice his staff. What allowed a hospital to deflect liability in the US?

State prohibitions for defense.

What laws need to change? Carry or liability? An unguarded hospital is an attractive nuisance to terrorist attacks.


5- DGUs Our disclaimer is that you need training, and these stories are NOT training.


Rob – Michael Cargill’s Parent’s Endure 中国体彩官方app Invasion

Our first DGU strikes far too close to 中国体彩官方app. Michael Cargill, a tireless advocate for the 2nd Amendment, talkshow host, concealed carry instructor, gun store owner and friend of this podcast, had his parents involved in a . Fortunately, his family is shaken, but okay.

In the outskirts of Atlanta, four men tried to break into a rural 中国体彩官方app early in the morning. They stole a swimming pool ladder to get to a second story window. Awakened around 4, the owner found a man climbing through his master bathroom window. In that terrible situation, Cargill’s stepfather shot to defend his wife and his own life. Michael Silva, 25, was hit in the face and died on the 中国体彩官方app’s roof. He was on parole for a 2013 case and had recently been arrested for drunkenness. Silva lived less than a half mile from the burglary that cost him his life. His confederates have not been caught.

In the past, Michael Cargill had run his parents through his handgun license course. Afterward, he helped guide them through the post shooting minefield. He made sure they had called 911 and then provided some needed advice. “I don’t want them making any statements at all and saying the wrong thing and getting themselves in trouble.” He also worked with a Texas firearms legal defense group insurance group to arrange for a Georgia attorney. Cargill did well, as his parents were taken to jail, questioned and then released without charges being filed. “The 中国体彩官方appowner was well within the boundaries of Georgia law’s defense of habitation statute,” according to a police spokesman. Even though his parents were clearly the victims, their house was “very thoroughly” searched by police, a second traumatic violation of their 中国体彩官方app.

We at the Polite Society Podcast wish Michael Cargill’s parents all the best. “They’re really broken up by this…having to stop someone and take someone’s life,” Cargill said. “It changes you.” The changes that perhaps allowed his parents to survive had started years earlier when Cargill’s grandmother was robbed and raped on a college campus. “From that point on, I decided I wanted to make sure that every female and everyone in their family had the tools they needed to protect themselves to stop those threats,” Cargill said. “We did not want to become victims anymore. And I’m so glad today justifies what I did back then. Because my parents had the tools they needed to protect themselves and stop that threat.”


Michael Cargill’s talk show discussion about the shooting can be found in the shownotes. It’s highly recommended.


Gary –


Gary – CCW Carrier Helps Officer

An Ohio citizen “” in a very direct way, using his concealed carry pistol. Last year, Corporal Michael Wheeler of the Mount Vernon Police Department was attacked by a crystal meth addict. The man knocked the police officer onto his back and pinned him to the ground. The perp was about to get to Wheeler’s duty weapon when Dylan DeBoard interveined. The concealed weapon permit holder leveled his gun at the criminal, who stopped his attacks and put his hands up. Wheeler then flipped his attacker and put him in cuffs.


This week, DeBoard was honored by Mount Vernon with their Citizen’s Award of Valor. Corporal Wheeler was there to present the award. “Every time I see him I let him know how much I appreciate what he did,” the officer said. “I wish a lot more of society would do what he did. There were people standing around, but they were just watching. I kept wondering why people didn’t do anything.”

We can only echo Corporal Wheeler’s words – all of them. Well done, Mr DeBoard. Well done, indeed.


Rob- Get involved.


John – Woman Defends Her Life and the Life of Her Unborn Child
A Birmingham, Alabama woman was forced to — and the life of her unborn child. The five-month pregnant woman awoke to the sounds of an air conditioner being ripped from a window. She grabbed her gun, and in her own words, “I walked out of the door and I saw them, the guy in the hallway … he was kind of close to me so I shot and he fell. And from that point, I went and turned on the lights and I called the police.” Police transported the criminal to the hospital. He is expected to survive.

Marquita Turner says she’s not scared, but she will be moving. This is the fourth time her 中国体彩官方app has been burglarized in the seven months she’s lived there. “You have to protect yourself. Without a doubt. Take matters into your own hands. Get some type of protection. Don’t take anything for granted. You got to protect you and your child. Be strong. If it comes down to that, then that’s what you have to do. Don’t be scared,” Turner said. Her protection took the form of a pink Taurus Millennium 9. “This was my first time pointing and shooting. I never been to a gun range. I never went to target practice or anything. I was just, at the time, protecting myself.”


This brave mother-to-be certainly protected herself. As well as the life she was carrying. However, we are delighted to know she will be moving.


Gary –

Rob- Please get training. Also get your concealed carry permit so you carry every place, and all the time.

John – I think suppressed firearms making training for newbies much easier.

Cheryl – I am afraid that her admitting to not being trained could have opened her to civil legal action. u


Cheryl – It’s a Miracle!
A woman at a suddenly found herself with a gun pointed at her head. A man had grabbed the 23-year-old victim at about 1 am in the Phoenix, Arizona area gas station. However, the robbery didn’t go as he planned. Witnesses saw the woman, still with a gun to her skull, pull her handgun from a hip holster and shoot the attacker. Frank Taylor, 27, died from the single gunshot. The victim escaped to call 911 from her 中国体彩官方app, saying she was in fear for her life. Police found that evidence from the scene supported her and the witnesses’ descriptions of an armed assault and robbery. In Constitutional Carry Arizona, she was a legal carrier. As a matter of course, the shooting will be given to the Maricopa County Attorney’s Office to determine if charges will be filed. However, police believe this is a clear case of self-defense and no charges are likely.


By the way, the victim’s name was Carol Miracle. Yes, Shannon, this self-defense use of a handgun was a miracle, just not the way you expected it.


Rob – Darwin is Waiting at a Gun Store
Sometimes you just have to ask: Just what the hell were you thinking, man? Two future Darwin Award nominees decided to . — And very predictably, got shot at for their troubles.

The two feckless criminals went to rob Jim’s Gun Store in North Carolina late in the afternoon. A gun store employee and customer noticed the undynamic duo sculking around the carport wearing white masks. That won’t attract attention, huh? The employee tried to lock the store’s doors, but the two got past him after a struggle. As you would expect of someone in a gunstore, the employee had his pants on, and therefore his gun on, and he shot at the robbers.

The gunplay apparently surprised the two master thieves, and they bailed out and escaped in a green car. Deputies arrived to wrap the scene in festively colored crime-scene tape. They have been unable to determine if either suspect was hit by the employee’s fire and there have been no arrests.

We know that Willie Sutton said he robbed banks because “That was where the money is”; but going where the guns are could definitely get you a ride on a mortuary slab.


John – I’m sorry this doesn’t speak well for the intelligence of our criminals in North Carolina. Thank goodness!


John – Don’t Torque-Off the Old Gal – Who’s Got a Shotgun

We’ve got another in our Don’t Torque-Off the Old Gal series!

Two thieves probably thought the seasoned citizen was an when they broke into her Hillsboro, Missouri 中国体彩官方app late one night. They quickly learned the error of their ways – at the muzzle of a shotgun. The 77-year-old 中国体彩官方appowner heard a noise in the night. She went to investigate and found two intruders in her spare bedroom. Before they could get froggy, she stuffed her shotgun into their faces, prompting a panicked retreat out the bathroom window they broke into.

The goofs left a cell phone and burglary tools behind. The police were able to recognize this as a clue, and identified a 28-year-old as a “person of interest.” However, to date, no arrests have been made.


Neredowells should note that the shotgunner lives in a nest of feisty and capable old guys and gals. Doris Jackson, 87, said “The victim is not the only senior citizen in the neighborhood with a gun. How about a nine millimeter? I wouldn’t have a shotgun, but I have some more besides that, I’ve got some guns, you know,” boasted the prickly old gal. The sheriff’s department said they would prefer a call to 911 if an intruder is heard. They further urged victims to leave the work to the professionals, who would arrive RealSoonNow. However, the department did acknowledge that Jackson and her neighbors have their right to protect themselves. Ol’ Doris isn’t scared, she and her torqued-off neighbors are armed, and we’ll bet VERY dangerous…

You go, grrrrls! You just don’t torque-off a shotgun grandmomma!


John – I agree with Cheryl about this. We’ve reported stories like this in the past.



Gary- We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com Please take a minute and share them with a friend.



6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close


Listener e-mail discussion


John- Email #1


Hello all,


I’ve been listening to the Polite Society Podcast, as well as a number of other gun and second amendment related podcasts for a few years now. I have learned so much from listening to you guys, and ladies…:-) As a matter of fact your podcast is what motivated me the most to seek professional firearms training.


Living here in Olympia, WA., I’m only about an hour away from the Firearms Academy of Seattle (FAS). Back in July I took their one day Concealed Carry course, and guess who the lead instructor was? Kathy Jackson. She was awesome! I hope to get into their two day Defensive Handgun class before the end of this year. My ultimate goal is to do a MAG40 next year.


Anyway to the subject, the election. Folks this “vote your conscious” and some of your theories on how a state will vote, or relying on Congress to save us just adds up to a win for Clinton. Is a Clinton win really what you want? Is it? Trump was picked as the Republican candidate. Get over it! Was he the best the republicans could do, heck no, but he is it this year. One candidate will continue to harass us gun owners, and work hard to chip away at our rights primarily by appointing anti-gun judges, and the other candidate will not. As pro 2nd amendment as you and I are there should be no doubt who to vote for.


Okay, I’m calm again…lol. Anyway keep up the great work you all do.





Olympia Wa.


Retired USAF

NRA member

Member Armed Citizen Legal Defense Network




Gary – Listener Email #2


Hey guys, had a few questions on carry ammo. I swap out my self defense ammo once a year and that replaced ammo then becomes practice ammo.


I just finished this yearly ritual and I changed from The Remington 124 Gr +P Golden Saber “Black-Belt” loading and moved over to use Hornady’s 135Gr +P “Critical Duty” Bonded loading. To my understanding, this lround was recently adopted by the Texas Highway Patrol for use in their new Sig 320 duty pistols, and from what i read passes the FBI test through all barriers.


When looking at the box though, it is labeled right on the box “Law enforcement use only”, and when I went back and checked, and old Remington loads i was using before say “designed for Law Enforcement”. My questions are as follows….


#1) if I am in a self defense scenario, what is the group’s thoughts on my using this loading considering the labeling. I can just hear some Assistant DA telling the jury, “This guy was a wanna be cop, he even had to use the same bullets they do” or some similar nonsense. I doubt the wording on the box carry’s the force of law but it makes me think.



Danny –


#2) Why would manufacturers label their boxes in such a way?


#3) i am curious, if you guys don’t mind, what is your own round of choice for your carry weapons and what is the process you go though to determine what you round you pick?


Many thanks and keep up the good work,


Dean from Pittsburgh



Gary: Rob, do you have any new posts you want to mention?


Rob- I’ve been promoting an article by Laura Carno. She wrote about protecting students in schools. I wrote a review of Chris Bird’s book, Surviving a Mass Killer Rampage. My articles are up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland, and blog at John, tell us what’s new at your blog only guns and money


John- I just put up this evening before recording the podcast. It was about President Obama’s commutation of sentences for 214 “mostly non-violent” drug offenders. That would be OK if they were really non-violent. Over 1/4 had convictions for firearms crimes including at least 25 felons in possession. Moreover, if you are conspiring to smuggle over 9,000 kilos of cocaine into the country中国体彩官方app, I’m wondering just how “non-violent” the process was from start to finish. A client said something to me about these commutations that made a lot of sense. Junkies will do anything to get their next fix including killing you and me. Maybe drug offenses are not so non-violent.


That and more is at


Cheryl – If you want me to mention my guests this week on Gun Freedom Radio – I have a fun lineup: Guests:

Chris Bird – author of Surviving a Mass Killer Rampage: When Seconds Count, Police Are Still Minutes Away

Regis Giles (pronounced Jiles) – is the creator and owner of Girls Just Wanna Have Guns.com

Dave Cole –contributor to Kenn Blanchard’s Black Man With A Gun website.

-Congressman Steve Russell of Oklahoma – also a gun manufacturer and owner of Two Rivers Arms.


We would like to thank Charlie Foxtrot for writing up show notes for us. Even though you don’t hear him on the air he is certainly part of what you do hear. Look at his blog at


John: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. I’d like to thank guests Joseph La Joy and Dr John Edeen and Cheryl Todd.for joining us today. So for our regular cast of Charlie Foxtrot, Gary, Rob, Rachel, Susan, and Paul,

(Paul, stop talking now)


Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Cheryl: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.